switching the AFR table to lamda

[racerron]

Can you switch the afr table on tuner studio to lamda vs. The gas scale

[billr]

I'm sure you can, but don't know the procedure. I'll take a peek at my tune in TS... and the manuals.

Edit: do it in TS "project properties", "settings". Change "oxygen sensor/display" from AFR to lambda.

[racerron]

ok i found it. thanks. one other question im trying to run methanol and alot are saying start at .55 lambda. i have a innovative lc2 and i don't think it will go that low. any input on this one.

[billr]

I think .55 would be really rich. My understanding is that all fuels will show a lambda = 1 when at their stoic AFR. So, methanol at a stoic of 9 for AFR would be lamda = 1, and .55 would mean the AFR was about 5. Am I correct, folks? Maybe you have to start that rich (or richer) to get the engine running. I have been doing some experiments with (wet) ethanol and find that it needs to be very rich to fire off, and the fuel needs to be heated; vaporization is that poor.

[racerron]

Yes I ran e85 last year. It takes a lot more fuel during start up.

[racerron]

Im a little confused now about afr's and methanol. A guy that tunes a lot of of the turbo cars at the track and most are running methanol says lambda need to be .55. Here is what he said.
Lambda would work. Start around .55 lambda. 5.22:1 would be 12:1 on gas scale(which is way to lean). I idle a methanol engine around 4.2:1.7.5:1 would be just over 3.2:1 using gas scale.

[racerron]

I guess the question now is can you re scale your wide band O2 to read methanol.?

[billr]

Do you mean for TS and what is logged, or a "real" dash gauge driven from the WB controller? I think a custom data-field could be created for TS displays, but the dash gauge possibility would depend on the WB controller. I sure won't know, but post the brand and P/N of the WB and maybe somebody else can advise.

[elutionsdesign]

They all read Lambda and re-scale to the fuel in use but it's probably best just to leave it as lambda or it gets confusing fast. The LC2 can be programmed for any output range and it is capable of lambda 0.5-1.5.

[billr]

Oops, I forgot he said it is an LC2. I think the desire is for an AFR display that is correct for methanol.

[racerron]

I talked to Innovative Motorsports and the tech guy said that I'm not going to be able to use my O2 sensor because the AFR is going to be below 8.0 AFR and it will foul out the sensor because keeping the egt's below 1100 degrees I'm going to have to tune below 8.0 AFR.

[racerron]

Like the tuneing guy said you need to get the lambda down to .55 to keep the egt's down below 1100 degrees Fahrenheit only in the top end of the track.

[racerron]

Any one have any good solution. Is there a auto tune or a run analysis I can use the will work with egt's instead of afr's?

[billr]

Alas, I think you got some very bogus info from the Innovative "tech" guy! Or, there is a communication problem. The WB sensor and controller should not be damaged, and should pass a usable signal to MS; but the conversion the controller/gauge system makes and displays may only be proper for 14.7:1 gasoline.

I hope Jean B. or somebody else will join in here to explain better (or get me straightened out!). I'm trying to help, but not any kind of expert.

[racerron]

Jean is a smart man. I appreciate your help. Well I know I did not damage it because I never went richer than 10 AFR.

[kaeman]

according the users manual for my lc-1 and my dlg-1 innovate wide band sensors, you can program which fuel you are using and then the lamda reading of 1 will be whatever the stoichiometric ratio for that fuel is. gasoline 14.7, propane 15.5, ethanol 9, methanol 6.4...... etc.

[racerron]

Scott Clark set me straight about the AFR on methanol. He said to target about 8.0 on the gas scale in which he also said the LC 2 will go that low

[racerron]

One thing that puzzles me though is if the AFR 4 gasoline engine is happy at say 12 to 1 stoichiometric foremost boosted Motors and methanol needs 8.0 AFR on the gasoline scale why does it need so much more I guess I'm just a little confused and I realize that methanol you need so much more. I know when I was running E85 I was shooting for 11.5 AFR to 11 AFR at full Boost on the gasoline scale.

[elutionsdesign]

Which is why you should just use lambda and avoid gasoline scale, E85 scale and methanol scale. Lambda is lambda, everything else is a translation function. .8 lambda for gas is .8 lambda for methanol is .8 lambda for E20 is .8 lambda for E85, think in lambda and don't concern yourself with fuel type.

[racerron]

So I went to the track on Friday and Saturday and it seems to me like the car likes to idle around 10.5 AFR and the egts are around 1100 degrees with the AFR@ 9.5 by 145 kpa.Of this is running methanol on the gas scale.