Why does my VE table look like a topo map?

skikir · Post by **skikir** » Fri Sep 09, 2016 8:58 am

my VE table looks like a Topo Map. Around 3800 rpm there is the Grand Canyon running up the middle in the 30s with a ridge right next to it at 3200 rpm in the 60s while around 1200 rpm there is the Rockies towering in the 90s and scattered around there are random peaks and craters. After auto tuning and smoothing to make it look all homogenized I'll run auto tune again and it comes out like an old wrinkled piece of paper again with the same land marks. I'd hate to drive across that landscape let alone driving with. Are these peaks and valleys an indication of flow through the intake and exhaust at different flows and really nothing to be done with or can there be an underlining issue that can be dealt with? I've been tuning this thing for a couple of years and keep seeing the same results. I included my last results but the PC battery died in the middle so it's not totally indicative.

turbo conversion · Post by **turbo conversion** » Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:27 pm

Under Req. Fuel and General settings afr needs to be set to 14.7 not 13.8.

Also if you are using the EDIS module dwell type should be set to fixed not standard.

If I am not mistaken trigger off set for EDIS should be set to 0 not -1.

Also for batch fire your VE table at idle is a bit lean, normally around mid to low 13s is good.

David

prof315 · Post by **prof315** » Sat Sep 10, 2016 3:31 am

skikir wrote:my VE table looks like a Topo Map. Around 3800 rpm there is the Grand Canyon running up the middle in the 30s with a ridge right next to it at 3200 rpm in the 60s while around 1200 rpm there is the Rockies towering in the 90s and scattered around there are random peaks and craters. After auto tuning and smoothing to make it look all homogenized I'll run auto tune again and it comes out like an old wrinkled piece of paper again with the same land marks. I'd hate to drive across that landscape let alone driving with. Are these peaks and valleys an indication of flow through the intake and exhaust at different flows and really nothing to be done with or can there be an underlining issue that can be dealt with? I've been tuning this thing for a couple of years and keep seeing the same results. I included my last results but the PC battery died in the middle so it's not totally indicative.

The issue is that AFR readings tend to be transient and dynamic, they constantly change as you change the load and throttle position. Temp, humidity, baro these all effect your AFRs . Also, while it's very very good VEAnalyze isn't perfect. Auto tune, smooth and then if it's not already on turn on EGO correction with a 10-15% authority and drive.

skikir · Post by **skikir** » Thu Sep 15, 2016 7:59 am

turbo conversion wrote:Under Req. Fuel and General settings afr needs to be set to 14.7 not 13.8.

Also if you are using the EDIS module dwell type should be set to fixed not standard.

If I am not mistaken trigger off set for EDIS should be set to 0 not -1.

Also for batch fire your VE table at idle is a bit lean, normally around mid to low 13s is good.

David

We have E15 or is it E85 (15 percent alkyhall) so I use the 13.8 AFR. Right?

turbo conversion · Post by **turbo conversion** » Thu Sep 15, 2016 12:52 pm

If believe with E15 it should still be set to 14.7.

Can someone verify this please?

David

ol boy · Post by **ol boy** » Sun Sep 18, 2016 5:02 pm

WBO2 will still put out an analog value of 14.7 AFR regardless of fuel. It's an O2 sensor. It calculates AFR from the remaining oxygen content. If you want true AFR for your fuel blend then you'd need to program that in the O2 controller then match that to MS. Hope this helps.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

skikir · Post by **skikir** » Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:27 am

Never thought of that.

72bluetr6 · Post by **72bluetr6** » Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:04 pm

I have a 1972 TR6 also and it is supercharged and running EDIS. Also a Goodparts GP2 cam. I attached msq and msl files. Note that I have only EAE SOW and ADW coefficients, no EAE RPM ADW or SOW and TPS Acceleration enrichment turned off. Also, EGO feedback and Overrun fuel cut turned off, but these are tuned for my car if you turn them on. Up to 100%KPa should be similar to your car if you have a street cam too. I hope you can benefit from attached tables/setup could be examples for you. I idle about 1000RPM with the GP2 cam, a little lope but not much overlap. Eric

Alchemist · Post by **Alchemist** » Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:03 pm

Question for 72BlueTR6, I too am trying to get my '74 TR6 tuned. I'm currently running 2 #42 injectors,
single TB, GP2 cam, ASPX WB O2. My question is, where in your exhaust system have you mounted your
O2 sensor ? I've got mine mounted just after the manifold flange where the pipes straighten out and
start their run aft. I get wild fluctuations of O2 and I'm thinking that I may have the sensor too far back.

Alchemist

72bluetr6 · Post by **72bluetr6** » Sat Oct 01, 2016 10:55 pm

PLX controlled wideband mounted as in photo. Seems to work fine.

Alchemist · Post by **Alchemist** » Sun Oct 02, 2016 5:45 am

Thanks for the photo. Mine's mounted in the same position,
so I think I can eliminate that as a problem.

72bluetr6 · Post by **72bluetr6** » Sun Oct 02, 2016 10:19 am

I can't guess at to what is causing the wild variations in readings. How wild is wild that you record? Tenths or tens and at what RPMs? Lowering LAG value to 50 will smooth out variations a bit.

Alchemist · Post by **Alchemist** » Mon Oct 03, 2016 12:33 pm

I'm still in the tuning process. I think the variations in O2 I'm seeing is normal as
I don't really have my VE table tuned yet. I'm seeing readings that oscillate
between 12 and 15.

72bluetr6 · Post by **72bluetr6** » Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:28 pm

Dont want to totally hijack skikir's thread, but you have my tune to get started. Should not be too far off your tune to get started.

Alchemist · Post by **Alchemist** » Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:32 am

Hi, Thanks for the MSQ I did use some of it for my tune, but I was still having issues with
getting a good VE table. What appeared to be happening was the engine was misfiring.
Inspecting the plugs didn't tell me much, only that some cylinders were rich while others
were lean, never the same twice. I had been using firmware version 3.4.2 but read that
there was a bug that affected EDIS with that version, so I loaded version 3.4.0, same issues.
I then replaced the coil pack and EDIS module with a set I had, no difference. The only
thing left were the injectors, I had been using 42# EV1 style injectors, I replaced them with
EV6 style. The difference was like night and day ! With a short tuning run around the block
the VE table tuned in pretty quickly and the the O2 reading that in the past hit the rail at 19
and stayed there for seconds when I let off the pedal went away along with the surging and
bucking. I still have a way to go to get this dialed in but I feel a lot better about the results.
I've been trying to get this car tuned for the past 8 months or so and getting very frustrated
about the whole process,

Skiker you may want to make note of this as I know that we have very similar setups and that
you've been having the same issues that I had. You might want to take a look at your injectors.
The main difference that I see between the EV1 and EV6 injectors is their spray pattern, I think
the EV6 atomizes the fuel better.

skikir · Post by **skikir** » Wed Oct 12, 2016 3:06 pm

Hmm, seems I'm not the only TR6 out in the EFI woods. I'm using 47# Bosch style injectors. I don't know what kind of EV style they are. Any idea of best way to determine that?

piledriver · Post by **piledriver** » Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:03 pm

Until I turned on the (now default) MAP averaging WOT MAP would go from 115KPA to 85KPA between 3K and 3500 RPM due to tuning resonances.
(little power difference) the timed samples see stuff that' may or may not effect actual fuel demand, but the WBO2 tells all.
The map averaging makes that go away.
If not on, make it so.

Alchemist · Post by **Alchemist** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:29 pm

The difference that I can see between the EV1 And EV6 style injector is the body style.
EV1 injectors have a large, .875 dia. body where the EV6 style are about .625 dia.
A good website to look at for injector specs is : users.erols.com/sweiss/tableifc.htm
Just look up your injector number to find the pertinent specs on it.

Megasquirt Support Forum (MSEXTRA)

Why does my VE table look like a topo map?

Why does my VE table look like a topo map?

Re: Why does my VE table look like a topo map?

Re: Why does my VE table look like a topo map?

Re: Why does my VE table look like a topo map?

Re: Why does my VE table look like a topo map?

Re: Why does my VE table look like a topo map?

Re: Why does my VE table look like a topo map?

Re: Why does my VE table look like a topo map?

Re: Why does my VE table look like a topo map?

Re: Why does my VE table look like a topo map?

Re: Why does my VE table look like a topo map?

Re: Why does my VE table look like a topo map?

Re: Why does my VE table look like a topo map?

Re: Why does my VE table look like a topo map?

Re: Why does my VE table look like a topo map?

Re: Why does my VE table look like a topo map?

Re: Why does my VE table look like a topo map?

Re: Why does my VE table look like a topo map?