Car makes less power with more boost ?

Tuning concepts, methods, tips etc.

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jsimmons
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 207
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:12 pm

Re: Car makes less power with more boost ?

Post by jsimmons »

It may be possible that your are blowing through the converter
Turbo nut
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:00 am

Re: Car makes less power with more boost ?

Post by Turbo nut »

Do you have enough valve spring?
1982 porsche 930
BlackBird_SR71
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 354
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 2:26 pm

Re: Car makes less power with more boost ?

Post by BlackBird_SR71 »

Had a look at your .msq file and have to ask a couple of questions.

1: E85 Stoich is around 9.76, but you have your fuel calculations set for gasoline at 14.7. How did you compensate for the extra 30 to 35 % fuel that E85 fuel calculations require. Did you add the percentage to the VE tables?

2: If you can set your O2 sensor to read in Lambda . Much less variation that way. Calibrate O2 controller to E85 of course if you want to output as AFR.

3: AFR are still in Gas scale?? You can do that but your Target AFR's seem to be wrong for E85. Personally, I don't like running Gas Scales for E85. To easy to screw up. And difficult for any one else trying to interpret Tables.

4: Ignition timing seems to be really conservative. Not many specs given on motor, such as CR. I imagine it's in the 10 to 1 range with your vlow Boost levels. . But Ignition seems really conservative for E85, even when not on boost. Octane rating of E85 is around 116. I know the VW/Audi crowds have found big HP gains with more timing ( and less boost ) on E85.

Here's a very interesting chart on recommended E85 vs Gasoline Lambda values and AFR's. From Yellow Bullet Forum:

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showt ... p?t=283787
Thank You,
Mark Sullens


If the above didn't help:
Maybe this will....

stay out of the RED.

Lambda E85 AFR Gas AFR
0.500 4.880 7.350
0.510 4.978 7.497
0.520 5.075 7.644
0.530 5.173 7.791
0.540 5.270 7.938
0.550 5.368 8.085
0.560 5.466 8.232
0.570 5.563 8.379
0.580 5.661 8.526
0.590 5.758 8.673
0.600 5.856 8.820
0.610 5.954 8.967
0.620 6.051 9.114
0.630 6.149 9.261
0.640 6.246 9.408
0.650 6.344 9.555
0.660 6.442 9.702
0.670 6.539 9.849
0.680 6.637 9.996
0.690 6.734 10.143
0.700 6.832 10.290
0.710 6.930 10.437
0.720 7.027 10.584
0.730 7.125 10.731 @ Max Power Multi Turbo
0.740 7.222 10.878
0.750 7.320 11.025 @ Supercharged/Turbo
0.760 7.418 11.172
0.770 7.515 11.319 @ Max Power NA
0.780 7.613 11.466
0.790 7.710 11.613
0.800 7.808 11.760 @ Consistant Race
0.810 7.906 11.907
0.820 8.003 12.054
0.830 8.101 12.201
0.840 8.198 12.348 @ Part throttle RACE
0.850 8.296 12.495
0.860 8.394 12.642
0.870 8.491 12.789 @ Idle
0.880 8.589 12.936
0.890 8.686 13.083
0.900 8.784 13.230
0.910 8.882 13.377 @ Part throttle STREET (economy)
0.920 8.979 13.524
0.930 9.077 13.671
0.940 9.174 13.818
0.950 9.272 13.965
0.960 9.370 14.112
0.970 9.467 14.259
0.980 9.565 14.406
0.990 9.662 14.553
1.000 9.760 14.700
1.010 9.858 14.847
1.020 9.955 14.994
1.030 10.053 15.141
1.040 10.150 15.288
1.050 10.248 15.435
1.060 10.346 15.582
1.070 10.443 15.729
1.080 10.541 15.876
1.090 10.638 16.023
1.100 10.736 16.170
1.110 10.834 16.317
1.120 10.931 16.464
1.130 11.029 16.611
1.140 11.126 16.758
1.150 11.224 16.905
1.160 11.322 17.052
1.170 11.419 17.199
1.180 11.517 17.346
1.190 11.614 17.493
1.200 11.712 17.640
enroh
MS/Extra Newbie
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:11 pm

Re: Car makes less power with more boost ?

Post by enroh »

Blackbird has hit the nail on the head. I had the same problem with my turbo e85 ls1. Made less power on more boost due to fuel tables being set for petrol not e85.

Sent from my SM-G928I using Tapatalk
TomWright
MS/Extra Newbie
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:50 am

Re: Car makes less power with more boost ?

Post by TomWright »

enroh wrote:Blackbird has hit the nail on the head. I had the same problem with my turbo e85 ls1. Made less power on more boost due to fuel tables being set for petrol not e85.

Sent from my SM-G928I using Tapatalk

When you say that do you mean just the stoich numbers had not been changed ? or the target afrs were wrong ?

I am thinking of changing everything up to the e85 scale, it seems to be confusing me and everyone I talk to.

PS the lack of power was due to lack of ignition timing. Thanks for everyones replies.

Tom
enroh
MS/Extra Newbie
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:11 pm

Re: Car makes less power with more boost ?

Post by enroh »

TomWright wrote:
enroh wrote:Blackbird has hit the nail on the head. I had the same problem with my turbo e85 ls1. Made less power on more boost due to fuel tables being set for petrol not e85.

Sent from my SM-G928I using Tapatalk

When you say that do you mean just the stoich numbers had not been changed ? or the target afrs were wrong ?

I am thinking of changing everything up to the e85 scale, it seems to be confusing me and everyone I talk to.

PS the lack of power was due to lack of ignition timing. Thanks for everyones replies.

Tom
Stoich was set to 14.67 for petrol. Not the required 9.67 for e85. Even though the extra fueling was added to the ve tables it did not make power properly. I changed the stoich to 9.67 and wiped about 30percent off the fueling tables and it was sweet.

Sent from my SM-G928I using Tapatalk
red-racing
Helpful MS/Extra'er
Posts: 81
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:30 pm

Re: Car makes less power with more boost ?

Post by red-racing »

BlackBird_SR71 wrote:Had a look at your .msq file and have to ask a couple of questions.

1: E85 Stoich is around 9.76, but you have your fuel calculations set for gasoline at 14.7. How did you compensate for the extra 30 to 35 % fuel that E85 fuel calculations require. Did you add the percentage to the VE tables?

2: If you can set your O2 sensor to read in Lambda . Much less variation that way. Calibrate O2 controller to E85 of course if you want to output as AFR.

3: AFR are still in Gas scale?? You can do that but your Target AFR's seem to be wrong for E85. Personally, I don't like running Gas Scales for E85. To easy to screw up. And difficult for any one else trying to interpret Tables.

4: Ignition timing seems to be really conservative. Not many specs given on motor, such as CR. I imagine it's in the 10 to 1 range with your vlow Boost levels. . But Ignition seems really conservative for E85, even when not on boost. Octane rating of E85 is around 116. I know the VW/Audi crowds have found big HP gains with more timing ( and less boost ) on E85.

Here's a very interesting chart on recommended E85 vs Gasoline Lambda values and AFR's. From Yellow Bullet Forum:

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showt ... p?t=283787
Thank You,
Mark Sullens


If the above didn't help:
Maybe this will....

stay out of the RED.

Lambda E85 AFR Gas AFR
0.500 4.880 7.350
0.510 4.978 7.497
0.520 5.075 7.644
0.530 5.173 7.791
0.540 5.270 7.938
0.550 5.368 8.085
0.560 5.466 8.232
0.570 5.563 8.379
0.580 5.661 8.526
0.590 5.758 8.673
0.600 5.856 8.820
0.610 5.954 8.967
0.620 6.051 9.114
0.630 6.149 9.261
0.640 6.246 9.408
0.650 6.344 9.555
0.660 6.442 9.702
0.670 6.539 9.849
0.680 6.637 9.996
0.690 6.734 10.143
0.700 6.832 10.290
0.710 6.930 10.437
0.720 7.027 10.584
0.730 7.125 10.731 @ Max Power Multi Turbo
0.740 7.222 10.878
0.750 7.320 11.025 @ Supercharged/Turbo
0.760 7.418 11.172
0.770 7.515 11.319 @ Max Power NA
0.780 7.613 11.466
0.790 7.710 11.613
0.800 7.808 11.760 @ Consistant Race
0.810 7.906 11.907
0.820 8.003 12.054
0.830 8.101 12.201
0.840 8.198 12.348 @ Part throttle RACE
0.850 8.296 12.495
0.860 8.394 12.642
0.870 8.491 12.789 @ Idle
0.880 8.589 12.936
0.890 8.686 13.083
0.900 8.784 13.230
0.910 8.882 13.377 @ Part throttle STREET (economy)
0.920 8.979 13.524
0.930 9.077 13.671
0.940 9.174 13.818
0.950 9.272 13.965
0.960 9.370 14.112
0.970 9.467 14.259
0.980 9.565 14.406
0.990 9.662 14.553
1.000 9.760 14.700
1.010 9.858 14.847
1.020 9.955 14.994
1.030 10.053 15.141
1.040 10.150 15.288
1.050 10.248 15.435
1.060 10.346 15.582
1.070 10.443 15.729
1.080 10.541 15.876
1.090 10.638 16.023
1.100 10.736 16.170
1.110 10.834 16.317
1.120 10.931 16.464
1.130 11.029 16.611
1.140 11.126 16.758
1.150 11.224 16.905
1.160 11.322 17.052
1.170 11.419 17.199
1.180 11.517 17.346
1.190 11.614 17.493
1.200 11.712 17.640
11.3 afr for max power gas? you are wasting a lot of fuel man
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