Reading MLV Data Logs

Tuning concepts, methods, tips etc.

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BigBlockMopar
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Re: Reading MLV Data Logs

Post by BigBlockMopar »

Don't get put off too much by the AFR's.
My AFR-gauge is tuned to a 1:15.5 ratio (= Lambda 1), being the stoich number for Propane fuel.

The fuel is provided by a simply design IMPCO 425 propane carb.
Although at idle, the AFR's are way too high, but that's most likely an issue with the liquid-to-gaseous propane convertor, which might be leaking a tiny bit internally, causing it to enrich the mixture at idle-RPMs.
When I up the rpms only just 150 rpm, the AFR number leans out again.

Because of this I'm not too happy how the carb is metering the mixture and is one of the main reasons I want to go EFI (propane vapour injection) with this too in due time.

Current MSQ;
https://bigblockmopar.nl/msextra/1973DodgeDart.zip
Daily driver: 1973 Dodge Dart - 360ci engine - 11.3:1cr - MS3x - ignition only. 42RH/A500 OD+LU transmission / 3.23 gears
--------------
Website: https://www.bigblockmopar.nl/
YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/BigBlockMopar
whittlebeast
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Re: Reading MLV Data Logs

Post by whittlebeast »

I have been working on getting better throttle response. Here is an interesting log I got today.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/tuning/MS3%20Ult ... il%202.png

Notice that there are 10 very similar throttle stabs in a 8 sec log. I am trying to figure out why the MAP based AE and TPS based AE trigger rather randomly. The amount of fuel added by the code appears to be about the same either way, so It may not make much difference, as long as you are using both versions of AE.

Andy
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Re: Reading MLV Data Logs

Post by whittlebeast »

If I zoom way in to look at one event, I get this.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/tuning/MS3%20Ult ... il%203.png

Notice that it takes 3 full engine cycles for the crank to start accelerating. By 5 engine cycles, the motor peaks out at about 9100 RPM per Sec accel rate. WE are thinking that at the power levels that the motor is making now and with the rotating weight of my crank, flywheel and clutch, 9100 may be the max I will ever get. The goal now is to get to that 9100 rate quicker.

Have fun tuning

Andy
dll67
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Re: Reading MLV Data Logs

Post by dll67 »

By your log it looks like it looses timing on that log .. All less than 25 degrees.
Are your combustion chambers really that efficient?
MS3PU/IOx/CAN-EGT/DBWx2 540ci BBC 325cc int runners (2)innovate LC2 wbo2's, Hilborn ITB injector cnvrtd to EFI, 55LB Inj, d585 coil near plg, 60-2 trg whl & cam ph snsr, Muncie 4spd w/10T VSS, Tilton 7.25" cerametalic cltch 8.5LB flywhl
whittlebeast
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Re: Reading MLV Data Logs

Post by whittlebeast »

I never optimized the timing on the dyno at those loads and rpm. I guess I could try more. I started from a base timing table from Hondata.

Andy
colson43
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Re: Reading MLV Data Logs

Post by colson43 »

whittlebeast wrote:Here is a great log from a turbo drift car. The blue line indicates where the motor passes thru the VE map on a typical pass. In the field is how the motor needs to have the VE adjusted to better get the motor to hit AFR targets. This is all done with a MS3 Ultimate logging at 320 samples per sec and MLVHD histograms.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/tuning/Turbo%20D ... %20Adj.png

To create this custom field, I used this formula.

(([AFR 1 Error]>1?1:[AFR 1 Error]<-1?-1:[AFR 1 Error])*.07)+1

Have fun tuning.

Andy
This information is awesome..almost too much to process. Andy can you explain more on the histograms. This particular one. How is this info relayed to the ve table as far as adjusting the cells? And is there a way to make adjustments directly from the histogram tab?

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
whittlebeast
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Re: Reading MLV Data Logs

Post by whittlebeast »

I sometimes use Excel with the output from that screenshot to create my own autotune. I use filters to filter out data like transitions or when the motor is cold to get rid of data I do not want to use. The MAP and RPM points must be set up the same in MLVHD as they are in the tuning software. This is really handy on less capable tuning software packages.

Andy
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Re: Reading MLV Data Logs

Post by whittlebeast »

For the road racers, autocrossers and drifters out there, here is the traction circle off my car. For more info, google "traction Circle"

http://www.nbs-stl.com/CrxTypeR/Tractio ... 0Tires.png

The goal is to stay on the perimeter of the circle. Never stay for long in the center.

Here is the histogram view of the same car but showing about 20% of the data shown above.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/CrxTypeR/Tractio ... togram.png

One of the runs, collection a little data.

https://youtu.be/gd3o9Xlp8W8?t=53

Andy
whittlebeast
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Re: Reading MLV Data Logs

Post by whittlebeast »

I was playing around with the high speed MAP Logger last night. I wanted to post a few notes for people to understand how to take one and what the data looks like. When you go to the Diagnostics and High Speed logging screen, one of the options is MAP Logger. With the ECU connected put a check in the "Save log" box. Hit the start button and give your log a name. If you have the motor running, you will see a page counter on the bottom right corner of your screen. Nothing will appear to be happening in the center of the screen. If you hit the stop button, the counter will stop and a file will be saved in your project's Datalogs directory. That file has to be opened in MLV to see anything in one of these logs.

Here is an example log once opened in MLV.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/tuning/ItbMapLog.png

Keep in mind that this sort of log ends up with 100 little screen shots that are in consecutive order but are NOT contiguous. Each red vertical line indicates a break in time as the code saves off a small screen shot (Data Set). In my case the data goes from about one to two engine cycles between each save. On the top, you see the RPM (I think at the start of the short segment) and the MAP, as the crank goes thru the 720 degrees of crank rotation. The crank location is shown in degrees at the bottom as a with saw tooth like pattern.

The bumps in MAP are each intake port sucking on my MAP hose.

You can download my raw data from here.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/tuning/ItbMapLog.csv

Have fun tuning.

Andy
boofhead
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Re: Reading MLV Data Logs

Post by boofhead »

Great information - thank you.

What is the formula for RPM/Sec?
and
What is the method to understand EAE using MVL?
whittlebeast
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Re: Reading MLV Data Logs

Post by whittlebeast »

boofhead wrote: What is the formula for RPM/Sec?
and
What is the method to understand EAE using MVL?
RPM/Sec is an optional field that you turn on. Under <Calculated Fields> <Optional Fields 2>

I don't normally use EAE. You should be able to turn on the field [Fuel: Accel enrich] and get a feel what it is doing.

I also have a field I created a field "Duty Cycle Base"

And define it as

100*[Duty Cycle1]/[Fuel: Accel enrich]

see http://www.nbs-stl.com/tuning/MS3%20Ult ... il%202.png

and http://www.nbs-stl.com/tuning/MS3%20Ult ... il%203.png

Andy
boofhead
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Re: Reading MLV Data Logs

Post by boofhead »

Thank you.

For EAE there is
EAE Load and
Wallwet

I just cannot relate these numbers back to the 6 curves that control EAE - I really like understanding whats going on from the logs so it is frustrating.
jsimmons
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Re: Reading MLV Data Logs

Post by jsimmons »

HEy andy you set up that duty cycle base on my mlv before and now its not showing anymore. I tried to create the custom field again using this formula and it says there is a syntax error.. any idea?


whittlebeast wrote:
boofhead wrote: What is the formula for RPM/Sec?
and
What is the method to understand EAE using MVL?
RPM/Sec is an optional field that you turn on. Under <Calculated Fields> <Optional Fields 2>

I don't normally use EAE. You should be able to turn on the field [Fuel: Accel enrich] and get a feel what it is doing.

I also have a field I created a field "Duty Cycle Base"

And define it as

100*[Duty Cycle1]/[Fuel: Accel enrich]

see http://www.nbs-stl.com/tuning/MS3%20Ult ... il%202.png

and http://www.nbs-stl.com/tuning/MS3%20Ult ... il%203.png

Andy
whittlebeast
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Re: Reading MLV Data Logs

Post by whittlebeast »

My guess is that one of the fields in the formula is now missing in your newest logs.

Andy
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Re: Reading MLV Data Logs

Post by whittlebeast »

Here is a series of screen shots off my ITB Honda race motor. The data has been filtered to only show data where the motor is making some power. I did that by filtering out data below a MAPxRPM of 2800. The plot on the right only shows 3500 to 8500 RPM in 500 RPM increments. Keep in mind that I was tuning this motor SD primary and AN as a secondary load multiplied.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/tuning/ITB%20Pow ... %20RPM.png

http://www.nbs-stl.com/tuning/ITB%20Pow ... %20TPS.png

http://www.nbs-stl.com/tuning/ITB%20Pow ... %20MAP.png

http://www.nbs-stl.com/tuning/ITB%20Pow ... ttling.png

http://www.nbs-stl.com/tuning/ITB%20Pow ... rtions.png

http://www.nbs-stl.com/tuning/ITB%20Pow ... Totals.png

http://www.nbs-stl.com/tuning/ITB%20Pow ... %20AFR.png

All shots are the same data but the color has been changed to demonstrate different things.

Added: Keep in mind that this MAPxRPM vs DC pattern only happens on ITB motors. Almost all other motors wind up as a nearly straight line.

Andy
Last edited by whittlebeast on Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
whittlebeast
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Re: Reading MLV Data Logs

Post by whittlebeast »

This is the filter I created to give the plot shown on the right on all those screen shots.

(([Field.RPM]< 3450 or [Field.RPM]>3550) and
([Field.RPM]< 4450 or [Field.RPM]>4550) and
([Field.RPM]< 5450 or [Field.RPM]>5550) and
([Field.RPM]< 6450 or [Field.RPM]>6550) and
([Field.RPM]< 7450 or [Field.RPM]>7550) and
([Field.RPM]< 8450 or [Field.RPM]>8550) and
([Field.RPM]< 3950 or [Field.RPM]>4050) and
([Field.RPM]< 4950 or [Field.RPM]>5050) and
([Field.RPM]< 5950 or [Field.RPM]>6050) and
([Field.RPM]< 6950 or [Field.RPM]>7050) and
([Field.RPM]< 7950 or [Field.RPM]>8050)) or
[Field.AFR] > 17.7 or
[Field.AFR] < 10.3 or
[CLT] < 160

Andy
tknobby
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Re: Reading MLV Data Logs

Post by tknobby »

Andy,

Just watched your video about AE tuning using MLVHD. You have a custom field named Engine Cycle. I've tried to write that formula into my MLVHD but it returns a bad syntax error.
Engine Cycle = [next_spark.tooth]<[next_spark.tooth-1]?1:0
Did I type this wrong or...?

Thanks very much for all you do for us noobs.

Tom...
Tom Knoblauch
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whittlebeast
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Re: Reading MLV Data Logs

Post by whittlebeast »

Is next_spark.tooth in the logs?
tknobby
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Re: Reading MLV Data Logs

Post by tknobby »

Ahhh, maybe not. Do I add it in in the Root Field editor? What would be the best way?

Thanks Andy.

T...
Tom Knoblauch
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Re: Reading MLV Data Logs

Post by whittlebeast »

Under <File> <Vehicle Projects> <Project Properties> <Settings> <INTERNAL_LOG_FIELDS> <<Activated>>
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