Twin Turbo Delorean Not Starting

[TwinTurboDeLorean]

ah ok, well good news is you are not reading 1600rpm when the engine is not moving, you tps is not floating and you map reading is good. bad news is the rpm signal is braking up and your rpm is dropping to zero when the engine is still cranking

Any ideas where to look?

[grom_e30]

its sync loss reason 14 "trigger return vane size" im not actually sure what this means. but you can take a composite log in the 'diagnostic and high speed loggers' tab this will record the signals from the dizzy that the ecu is receiving

[Six_Shooter]

Have you adjusted the pots yet?, that's where I would start, setting as per the manual.

[billr]

Post a tooth log.

[TwinTurboDeLorean]

Have you adjusted the pots yet?, that's where I would start, setting as per the manual.

yes, I turned them both (r52 and r56) ccw all the way. when i do this, the gauges in tuner studio, such as rpms, afr, start fluctuating and then there is clicking at then engine that sounds like spark and or injectors. It also shows rpm sync, ase, and ready in green fluctuating as well. so i turn back the pot r52 until it stops and there is no rpm snc...i tried different combinations and I either get no sync or i get sync but with wild fluctuations of the gauges and syncing.....
i hope that makes sense...

[TwinTurboDeLorean]

Post a tooth log.

here you go. thank you for the help.

[TwinTurboDeLorean]

its sync loss reason 14 "trigger return vane size" im not actually sure what this means. but you can take a composite log in the 'diagnostic and high speed loggers' tab this will record the signals from the dizzy that the ecu is receiving

see attached. but i didnt really see any activity on this like the tooth log...

[Six_Shooter]

Have you adjusted the pots yet?, that's where I would start, setting as per the manual.

yes, I turned them both (r52 and r56) ccw all the way. when i do this, the gauges in tuner studio, such as rpms, afr, start fluctuating and then there is clicking at then engine that sounds like spark and or injectors. It also shows rpm sync, ase, and ready in green fluctuating as well. so i turn back the pot r52 until it stops and there is no rpm snc...i tried different combinations and I either get no sync or i get sync but with wild fluctuations of the gauges and syncing.....
i hope that makes sense...

That's not setting them per the manual, do that and you'll probably find that your problems will be solved or at least going in the right direction.

[TwinTurboDeLorean]

Have you adjusted the pots yet?, that's where I would start, setting as per the manual.

yes, I turned them both (r52 and r56) ccw all the way. when i do this, the gauges in tuner studio, such as rpms, afr, start fluctuating and then there is clicking at then engine that sounds like spark and or injectors. It also shows rpm sync, ase, and ready in green fluctuating as well. so i turn back the pot r52 until it stops and there is no rpm snc...i tried different combinations and I either get no sync or i get sync but with wild fluctuations of the gauges and syncing.....
i hope that makes sense...

That's not setting them per the manual, do that and you'll probably find that your problems will be solved or at least going in the right direction.

Are these the correct instructions? http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/vradjust.htm

[Six_Shooter]

yes, I turned them both (r52 and r56) ccw all the way. when i do this, the gauges in tuner studio, such as rpms, afr, start fluctuating and then there is clicking at then engine that sounds like spark and or injectors. It also shows rpm sync, ase, and ready in green fluctuating as well. so i turn back the pot r52 until it stops and there is no rpm snc...i tried different combinations and I either get no sync or i get sync but with wild fluctuations of the gauges and syncing.....
i hope that makes sense...

That's not setting them per the manual, do that and you'll probably find that your problems will be solved or at least going in the right direction.

Are these the correct instructions? http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/vradjust.htm

Not if you're using MSExtra code. Look in the manuals linked at the top of this forum for the MSExtra manuals.

[billr]

That's a "composite log", not a "tooth log".

If the sensor in the dizzy is VR (2-wire), then set those pots full CCW.

[TwinTurboDeLorean]

That's a "composite log", not a "tooth log".

If the sensor in the dizzy is VR (2-wire), then set those pots full CCW.

When I set the pots to full ccw, the software and ignition goes haywire....the following happens with the car off and only key on to have tunerstudio online:
-The following lights start randomly blinking green at the bottom of the gauge cluster in tuner studio:
-ASE/ASE OFF, Not RPM Synced/RPM Synced, WUE OFF/WUE, Cranking/Not Cranking, Not Ready/Ready
-The following gauges go haywire (the ones i have on my "dash":
-Engine Speed, Ignition Advance, Battery Voltage, AFR
-I hear random clicking in the engine bay that sounds like the ignition sparking and/or injectors pulsing (i have disabled the fuel pump externally to prevent issues)

Attached is a log i have captured of the phenomenon...If anyone can help me figure this out I would greatly appreciate it...

[grom_e30]

the last log wont open for me for some reason, but if yo get those symptoms with the ecu powered up but engine not running you seem to be getting noise from somewhere on the signal

[TwinTurboDeLorean]

the last log wont open for me for some reason, but if yo get those symptoms with the ecu powered up but engine not running you seem to be getting noise from somewhere on the signal

Suggestions on how to reduce the noise? as simple as moving wires?

[grom_e30]

make sure the grounds for the ecu are good, you could try moving the dizzy signal wires away from anything like coils, injectors, electric motors ect. do you have an oscilloscope?

[TwinTurboDeLorean]

make sure the grounds for the ecu are good, you could try moving the dizzy signal wires away from anything like coils, injectors, electric motors ect. do you have an oscilloscope?

I don't have an oscilloscope....But I will try moving the VR signal wire away from others. I put all of the ground wires together and to a bolt that tightens to the aluminum intake manifold (top right). I even brushed the area they make contact with heavily....

[billr]

"...and that MS2 is correctly wired (brown wire) to the negative side of the coil."

That (from the beginning of this thread) has me puzzled. It seems like you are firing the coil from MS, but triggering MS from the coil as if the coil is controlled by some other reference, like points or the dizzy VR/driver module. Also, I think for triggering from the coil negative you should be using the "opto in" and the pots would be having no effect.

As to the tooth log, I'm not sure what I was expecting, since this is "basic trigger" and odd-fire, but I don't think that log looks good.

[TwinTurboDeLorean]

"...and that MS2 is correctly wired (brown wire) to the negative side of the coil."

That (from the beginning of this thread) has me puzzled. It seems like you are firing the coil from MS, but triggering MS from the coil as if the coil is controlled by some other reference, like points or the dizzy VR/driver module. Also, I think for triggering from the coil negative you should be using the "opto in" and the pots would be having no effect.

As to the tooth log, I'm not sure what I was expecting, since this is "basic trigger" and odd-fire, but I don't think that log looks good.

The vr in the dizzy is what im trying to get to communicate with ms to give it a rpm reading. The brown wire from ms goes to the coil to make it fire, which I have successfully tested.

[billr]

Is the "bare copper ground" a true shield, covering (most of) the outside of the signal wire? A twisted pair with separate shield would probably be more immune to noise.

[TwinTurboDeLorean]

Is the "bare copper ground" a true shield, covering (most of) the outside of the signal wire? A twisted pair with separate shield would probably be more immune to noise.

See below images of original distributor I'm using (welded mechanical advance weights inside) and the original wiring harness that came out of it.
I took a pic of what is inside the harness: a black insulated wire and the copper stranded wire wrapped around it. I have assumed that the black insulated wire is the signal wire and the bare copper strands are the ground/shield. the original harness had a 2-pin connector. I have cut that off to adapt to MS2 wiring....
If i can't get anything else to resolve the issue, i will try switching these wires to MS2.....