Audi 5000 running extremely rich

Tuning concepts, methods, tips etc.

Moderators: jsmcortina, muythaibxr

Post Reply
Sarki5000
MS/Extra Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:38 pm

Audi 5000 running extremely rich

Post by Sarki5000 »

I have a 1987 audi 5000 Quattro 2.2l 5 cylinder turbo that I'm in the process of installing megasuirt 2 v3.0 on.
List of parts on the car
034motorsport efi fuel rail
440cc high impedance injectors
aeromotive fuel pressure regulator set at 43psi
Non inductive coil from diyautotune
5 window distributer from similar audi

Anyway I set the reg fuel in tuner studio and generated the fuel ve and spark tables, and the car will start but is running pig rich. my question is does anyone on here have a msq file that I could use? the car is the mc1 10v turbo audi. Also would it be possible to run sequential injection if I installed a 60-2 trigger wheel with a one window distributer hall sensor? Thanks a million Aleks.
billr
Super MS/Extra'er
Posts: 6828
Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 11:41 am
Location: Walnut Creek, Calif. USA

Re: Audi 5000 running extremely rich

Post by billr »

With five squirts/cycle you have very short injector pulses. Have you flowed the injectors for dead-time and rate? Getting the correct DT is going to be critical with your short pulses. I gotta ask... how do you have the injectors wired, to fire five from two drivers? The VE values seem high, have you tried using the VE table generator? Lastly, I would turn off EGO control for now.
Sarki5000
MS/Extra Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: Audi 5000 running extremely rich

Post by Sarki5000 »

Thanks for the reply, the injectors are some cheap ebay ones, and they are all wired to the bank 1 driver circuit. I used the ve table genorator in the software and tried to match the original engine specs. The injectors don't have a spec lsited for dead time just turn on time, turn off time, offset, and gain. Here is the details from the exact injectors in my car
Yves
Super MS/Extra'er
Posts: 1505
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:23 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: Audi 5000 running extremely rich

Post by Yves »

Sarki5000 wrote:Thanks for the reply, the injectors are some cheap ebay ones, and they are all wired to the bank 1 driver circuit. I used the ve table genorator in the software and tried to match the original engine specs. The injectors don't have a spec lsited for dead time just turn on time, turn off time, offset, and gain. Here is the details from the exact injectors in my car
There are a lot of fake replica's of those injectors. As stated they should be checked for both spray pattern, dead time and small pw behavior.
Below 1.5 ms of pw at idle things get really erratic as my testing on original Bosch green tops has shown.
Sarki5000
MS/Extra Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: Audi 5000 running extremely rich

Post by Sarki5000 »

Does anyone know where I can find a reputable dealer with similar size injectors? Also would it help or even possible to wire three injectors to bank 1 and the other two to the bank 2 injector driver? This is my first megasquirt install so bare with me.
billr
Super MS/Extra'er
Posts: 6828
Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 11:41 am
Location: Walnut Creek, Calif. USA

Re: Audi 5000 running extremely rich

Post by billr »

There is really no substitute for flowing your injectors with your system (drivers, FPR, wiring, etc). Anything else you find won't be as good, no matter how reputable the source. The shorter your injector pulses are, the "gooder" you need the settings to be.

I think using two drivers, one driving two injectors and one driving three injectors, would make it even more critical to measure dead-time.
Sarki5000
MS/Extra Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: Audi 5000 running extremely rich

Post by Sarki5000 »

So basically I need to remove the fuel rail and injectors from the car, and test the injectors in the output test mode while measuring how much fuel is sprayed out over x amount of time correct? Then once I've measured the flow rate and dead time then I can compute the data back into the ecu?
billr
Super MS/Extra'er
Posts: 6828
Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 11:41 am
Location: Walnut Creek, Calif. USA

Re: Audi 5000 running extremely rich

Post by billr »

There is a good youtube video on how to test the injectors. Search for it here by "injector testing video", or maybe some kind soul will post a direct link to it.
Sarki5000
MS/Extra Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: Audi 5000 running extremely rich

Post by Sarki5000 »

Found the problem. The injectors are junk, I primed the fuel pump and the pressure kept dropping. I double checked the entire fuel system and couldn't find any leaks and the intank check valve is brand new. So I pulled the plugs and primed the fuel system and boom the injectors were leaking fuel. I guess that's what happens when you cheap out and buy china crap. Gonna go with a set of bosch 35lb injectors and test them before I install them so hopefully I can get this baby running right.
Yves
Super MS/Extra'er
Posts: 1505
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:23 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: Audi 5000 running extremely rich

Post by Yves »

Sarki5000 wrote:Found the problem. The injectors are junk, I primed the fuel pump and the pressure kept dropping. I double checked the entire fuel system and couldn't find any leaks and the intank check valve is brand new. So I pulled the plugs and primed the fuel system and boom the injectors were leaking fuel. I guess that's what happens when you cheap out and buy china crap. Gonna go with a set of bosch 35lb injectors and test them before I install them so hopefully I can get this baby running right.
Was thinking something along these lines. Even used Bosch injectors are better than then new Chinese stuff.
Post Reply