really low ve table

[enfini-fc]

just finished a ms3pro install after updating from a old 6x.


1.5JZ factory cams
6766 single
750cc FIC low imp injectors
fuel pressure at 40 psi unhooked vacumm and 30ish with vaccum.

Ive done a bunch of digging the last few days on this site; fixed and solved a few problems. I uploaded a factory supra map and compared them side by side. Its ve table looks closer to what the generator wants. mine wants about 4.5, i have it set about 1. otherwise its way to rich. i tried lowering fuel pressure and did not help to lean things out.

engine starts well, revs good. figured out the auto tune ve and warmup. i just cant get the idle afr above 10.5-11. it will start; then run about 12 then after about 5 seconds the afrs drop. the log i posted i started it 3 times.

thanks in advance for the help

[ironwill11]

I am by no means a master at this and not sure where your required fuel is supposed to be, but I believe your VE table is going to be based off of that.

Looking at your log it seems like you have an overall problem running rich, low AFR, duty cycle, and PW. Just some food for thought.

Will

[nathaninwa]

Have you verified that the wideband is matching Way tuner studio is reporting? Are all the map stuff setup correctly? I see engine off its 95kpa, but running its 25kpa. My stock cammed 2j didn't idle that low

Also, did you create a dead time curve from the supplied chart from fic?

[kjones6039]

It seems to this neophyte that 71.4 lb/hr injectors are awfully large for a 3000 cc six cylinder. I run 4 85# Holley injectors (TBI of course) on a 383 cu. in. small block V8 (~450+ hp) with a Required Fuel of 5.9 and my VE numbers at idle are in the mid/high 40's.

I may well be wrong but that sure seems like a lot of fuel! Which, of course, will drive your VE numbers right down!

Ken

[nathaninwa]

I saw that too, but put in the 750cc injector and the reqfuel is the same at the 4.5 So that's correct. I had run 1200cc injectors on my 2j with a reqfuel of 2.1 and I had a normal ve table with 40's in the idle region

[gjestico]

The VE table on the MS system can be quite different to other ECU systems, Due to the "multiply MAP" factor. I think. I have not been able to get a definitive answer on this from the MS powers that Be.

[nathaninwa]

Others may call it different, but it's kinda standard, like running a manifold source to the fpr for a more dynamic fueling setup

His table is incredibly low, like low single digits low. That why the question of deadtime and low impedance injectors some in and of the actual wideband reading matches ts

[ashford]

he's basically running off the dead time setting, its too big

[enfini-fc]

Have you verified that the wideband is matching Way tuner studio is reporting? Are all the map stuff setup correctly? I see engine off its 95kpa, but running its 25kpa. My stock cammed 2j didn't idle that low

Also, did you create a dead time curve from the supplied chart from fic?

I'll see if i cant find a map sensor to swap out. its wired as a external GM 3bar, which is what it is. I had a issue with it at first before I realized you have to select analog 6 input then it started to read; before it was stuck at 71 kPa and it would start and run fine. Now it seems to be working, ill throw a external gauge and try to compare to what MS is reading.

Ill dig out the LM-1 and see if its reading differently, it does not lean hunt or act like its reading off. If I add any fuel it will start to stink add a little more it smoke you out of the garage. The fuel calculator settings will fog the garage in just a few moments of running.

I've been trying to find that supplied chart, have not seen it for a few years. Was running the old setup for about 7 years. On the old computer injector idle settings were about 1 ms, and idle was steady at 13.8; also did not adjust the dead time curve(cant remember if i could or not)

thanks for the help

[nathaninwa]

I just took a look at some old data logs from my stock cams. 25ish kpa at idle is just fine

[enfini-fc]

Ok, hopefully tonight I can look at it. Is there any settings I should mess with or look at? Do you think I might have to get a set of new injectors? These are pretty old and 750s are just a little small for what I need. I would like to make around 800 wheel, so I need to get a little larger to be safe.

as info i believe these are a peak hold style injector, I haven't been able to find a setting for that.

Factory injectors for supras are 550cc, these are not much bigger and should not be this different when running.

I have a set of 1000cc available but i'm afraid I will run into the same issue once I get them installed; these are also pretty old and i know I don't have a sheet for them.

I have been plagued with this problem before which is why I have a set of 1000cc, the local tuner said to get a smaller injector which is what I did and that made the idle better. the old setup was dialed in with a dyno and so forth;this was 6 or 7 years ago. I'm trying to correct this problem before I go much further with the project.

thanks
Cameron

[nathaninwa]

Try to find some good data first, it won't be correct based on megasquirts drivers, but the curve will be way closer

Don't be afraid to run a larger hiZ injector. I ran an ev1 1100cc and had troubles, stick with the newer ev14 style. Have a friend with ev14 1300cc injectors and we idle at 14.0 with no issues

My LS is running 2300cc worth of ev14 injectors and idles just fine

Another friend is running the eBay 210lb injectors on a 2.3l motor on e50 without any issues. All these setups are running Pro

[billr]

Don't "mess with" the settings, flow the injectors for rate and dead-time; then use the correct settings.

[jsmcortina]

Something appears to be horribly wrong here.

Your deadtime is almost certainly incorrect (too high) but that doesn't explain idling at 0.7ms with those injectors. They are fairly large, but not obscene.

I'd suggest contacting websales@diyautotune.com and see if they have any thoughts.

James

[whittlebeast]

It appears the ECU needs to go back to DIY.

Andy

[enfini-fc]

I installed a wide band and compared they are reading the same.

I sent a email to websales

I am going to get a hold of the local tuner shop I ordered this from and see what he thinks.

thanks for the help everyone, I'll update as things change.

[Paul_VR6]

You mentioned they are a "peak and hold" injector, did you measure the resistance at all?

[enfini-fc]

You mentioned they are a "peak and hold" injector, did you measure the resistance at all?

2.4ohms or 4.2 if I can't quite remember right, I'll double check when I get home in a few days. Have too many numbers flying around in my head. I checked that when I did the initial install for injector settings.


they are 2.3, I found some injector charts on the internet for these and entered values just to see. I know its not right, I am only home for a day and half had to try something. did not make a difference. I got no response from web support.

I am going to be on the road for 2 weeks, back for day and half and back on the road for a month or longer I guess I really don't know what to do. If I buy ev14 injectors then redue the harness just on a chance its just injectors. I asked around to see if anyone local can test my injectors, I just don't know if its worth the money if i find out they wont work after the fact, could use the 100 bucks towards new.

Try to find some good data first, it won't be correct based on megasquirts drivers, but the curve will be way closer

Don't be afraid to run a larger hiZ injector. I ran an ev1 1100cc and had troubles, stick with the newer ev14 style. Have a friend with ev14 1300cc injectors and we idle at 14.0 with no issues

My LS is running 2300cc worth of ev14 injectors and idles just fine

Another friend is running the eBay 210lb injectors on a 2.3l motor on e50 without any issues. All these setups are running Pro

what brand of injector do you or anyone else suggest,havent looked injectors in along time. I am running a top feed rail with 11mm 7m-gte style injectors

[enfini-fc]

installed the set of 1000cc injectors with correct dead times. no change

If you watch the video, the first few seconds the afr and injector dead times seem ok. Then something changes and I can not find a setting that makes the change.

I am shutting the engine off and restarting it

https://youtu.be/qJDrngw5H5c

[jsmcortina]

I sent you a PM.

James