Feature Suggestions for Graph Editing

[AbeFM]

Trevor!
In order to keep this from getting TOO clogged over on the beta-test thread, I'll put in stuff I simply can't live without here. If I actually die, well, try not to feel too guilty.

The new graph editor is actually really good! I noticed one thing which MIGHT be a bug, and another which is a serious suggestion:

Potential bug
I need to check, it looked like the numbers weren't right in the Dead Time Voltage Curve - some seemed dead on, but the lower ones weren't what I remembered having in there. This is in offline tuning from a saved file - I will more carefully check against TS's version of the same graph and get back to you.

Minor Suggestion
I'm not sure what's the best way to handle it, but as I made drastic changed, the graph scale which started off ok became unreasonably zoomed out. This would be fixed by the next suggestion:

Big Suggestion
When you click on a point in the Graph Editor - it should pop up two text entry boxes - X, and Y. I have numbers precise to a couple decimal places, dragging a point to "somewhere between 169 and 211" doesn't quite set the world on fire in terms of accuracy.

I like the next point/previous point dynamic, it works well, with the ability to put in specific numbers you'd have all the functionality AND the ease of use of table editing and seeing/dragging the graph.

[Keithg]

My thoughts,

When editing, the dialog should shift left (maybe leave the carat so showing so it can be used as a 'back button') and the graph should fill the screen.
Update: I just tried it in portrait mode and that is how it works... (D'oh). I never tried it in portrait mode as it is always in my car dock and I have always used it in landscape mode.I guess, the first bit is to make the editing display work the same way in portrait and landscape mode.

For editing a table, one way I have thought about it:
If you made the previous/next point buttons half their width, and have up, down, right, left arrows bust to the left of that which can increment the x,y value of the point you are editing and use the next/previous to go to the next point.

Another way is to use next/prev to select a point. have a 'select button' which when pressed would open a text box with the current x and Y values which could be typed into to edit that point...

Another way is to use the volume up/down for changing Y value and only allow editing the X value in TS...

Lets discuss this and see what the others would like. I had to fire up TS to get my MAT correction table edited this morning, but this would be a nice improvement.

[AbeFM]

cross posted from other thread - fits here much better:
There is an offline discussion on graph editing which likely deserves its own thread, but to keep everyone in the loop, here's what I sent trevor earlier:
It's actually surprisingly good, baring the universal problem of smartphones: You want to have precise control AND large range. I guess the only thing I could think of (aside from "jog" buttons (+/- 10%) is some kinda local zoom - so if the value is 60, a full screen swype would only go +/- 10, and it would take multiple motions to do more...

But: Displaying the exact number (in real time) next to the line would be huge! Then I could mess with it till it's done.

For both these simple graphs and the big tables, how about a dial which sets amount, then 4 buttons (+, -, *, divide) or even just to (+/*). I could roll a horizontal dial with an exponential scale and I could type over the number as well) then apply the function.



This would let you set to any value, increase or decrease by any amount/factor and tapping on the number would let you type in a number if desired. Flexible and small on the screen.

To use it for normal graph editing, it would just need to know to apply to X or Y

[Keithg]

Abe,

How would that look in landscape mode?

Keith

[AbeFM]

Huh. Hadn't thought about it. But I suppose the non-linear-scroller would just run vertically. Buttons, too, would be off the end. The table NEEDS to be full top-to-bottom or the numbers will get illegible, so everything else must be to the sides.

The idea is in the functionality, more than the look.

The table, as pictured, is only 2" across. Individual cells are 3mm across, the characters only a single mm tall. So keeping it as big as possible is crucial. The all black text has helped considerably, having it go to the edge would do even more.

[Keithg]

Like I mentioned, the table and 2d curve editing does not appear the same in both portrait and landscape modes. Try it. In portrait mode, the tuning sections slide off to the left when you select a section (i.e. VE map) and the table fills the page. In landscape mode, the section headings do not slide left and still occupy a large portion of the screen. I always have my phone in a dock and it is always in landscape mode.

Whatever is done, it should work similarly for landscape and portrait modes, IMO.

Keith

[AbeFM]

I'm more on the fence about it - perhaps one way is better than another for certain things?

Ah! I see what you mean. I would guess the drill down navigation on the left should be killed when editing, and controls added in their place.

I like that the text more completely fills the cells, but the whole chart could be better. (This is 3D stuff like Ignition)

Looking at 2D charts: I'd say the same thing applies. Lots of room for controls.

Displaying the actual value in text would be helpful - and you COULD zoom in and out with pinching to make more precise edits. I don't know how hard that is to code.

[Keithg]

Is no-one else experiencing this problem with editing 2d graphs? I cannot edit them with my phone. The point moves all over when I edit it on my phone. A tablet would be a bit better, but a tablet cannot go in the car dock right in my field of vision. I've been looking for this functionality in the latest releases and have not seen it, yet. The 3D table editing works quite well, IMO, even with the multiple cell selection, but there is no easy way to make a slight change to a 2d graph. If I want 2% change, my big fat finger is more than that. For that matter, a 2 column table with the values which can be edited with the keyboard would be helpful.

If the graphic solutions are more complicated, how about this:
The graph is displayed when you go tuning -> Idle -> warmup. When you hit the pencil to edit it, a 2 column table appears. You finger tap to select the row and there are up/dn arrows to make 1% changes in the Y value only. IMO, if you are setting this up, you will use a laptop, but for a quick change you notice (for example in cold weather and your laptop is at home) you can edit it. This is similar to how I use the 3D table editors.

Looking forward top testing this in a future version. I had to drag the laptop out yesterday for a tune adjustment...

Keith

[AbeFM]

It's the same issue I have. And any hopes of "I'll just add 7 to all the values" is beyond beyond hopeless. I try to get kinda the shape I want - but I've made my car start worse and worse every time I mess with it on my phone.

There's been little traction in ideas or ways to 1) Know what value you have, and 2) Make a particular measured change to said value.

It's pretty hopeless and it's a half step above throwing random resistors on the various sensors. I don't care WHAT changes, but something that's QUANTITATIVE needs to be a high priority.

Between that (totally MSDroid's fault) and my logging not working any more (pretty sure that one's my fault though I have no idea how/why yet), I basically only do damage with MSDroid these days after a few blissful weeks of logging.

[Trev16v]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the feedback. To show it's all listened to, please try out 2.4r1 which I uploaded to Play literally last night. (Will put apk on server also if needed.) Now, the curve editor has a button at top to toggle between graphical curve and a tabulated numerical view. In the numerical view, long press to edit a row.

I'll be making further improvements to this so please keep up the feedback.

Trev

[AbeFM]

Sounds awesome, will check it out as soon as it makes it to the phone. Thanks for interpreting it as badly needed suggestions and not an attack!

[Trev16v]

It's all really appreciated By the way how are you finding the table editor improvements now? I did very much look at your ideas above and gave it lots of thought. I thought a lot about how to use different gestures and modes for efficient table editing. It would be good to know what people like and do not like, and how it can be improved further.

[AbeFM]

Whew! What a pain to get the image loaded.

Er, certainly I like the ability to just enter numbers, and to see what they were. Definitely more precise and more usable.

The other thing, with buttons and sliders, was meant to be stubby fingered, still run quick, and just as useful on 2D as on 3D. I can't say but I feel it'd work out well.

As to what I drew just now - the idea would be to let you easily navigate from entry to entry. Since you can't see the graph or even the points any more, you may want to see the next or previous point to make sure you're in a sensible place between them. This would let you navigate to the next or previous value (useful if you're adding +1.3 to each) as well as seeing what you're doing. Ethier a swype or tapping on the next/previous value could have them all shift to the side and let you edit the next.

This is certainly a lot more useful already!!
-Abe.

[Keithg]

Trevor,

Thanks!!!!! I have not yet edited anything, but this will definitely allow me to do so. Thanks!

Keith

[AbeFM]

Would it help if I took a quick stab at some psuedo-code fragments for the editor idea - i.e. how one would layout a slider for changing the value in a useful way? It'd probably take actually using to know if it was right, but something like a jog wheel with mouse acceleration - or:

MIN----(X)-----(Y)-----(Z)----MAX

Y = current value

X = Y - [(MAX-MIN) * 0.1]

Z = Y + [(MAX-MIN) * 0.1]

So that you have precise control for small changes, and fast control for big ones. And if MIN = 0 and MAX = 215 and Y = 205, you could still get to 86.5 by scrolling to roughly 75, then a second pull to get the fine tuning. The control would be fast, intuitive (I hope!) and precise while not taking up much space. Combined with "+", "x" and "=" buttons you could set any cell or grouping of cells quickly.

For instance, I often want to change the VE table in a ~3x4 cell area by +10%. Easily done with controls. Very difficult pulling up the keyboard each time, and nearly impossible with "+1" buttons - because one cell needs +3.6 while another may need 2.3 and the next 0.8.

With only +1, +0.1 buttons, that's 3 + 6 presses for the first cell, then select the next, 2 + 3 presses, then select the next, then 8 presses for the last cell, and that's only 3 cells not the full block of 12 (let's call it ~100 clicks) all while keeping track in your head which ones you changed and by how much, etc.

You can see why someone would bust out the laptop. Add in that you can't see your gauges while you are doing all this, it's easy to second guess yourself as the motor starts oscillating around the half finished table.

With the drawn set up above, you select a range of cells (one click-drag), you hit ""x" button (one click) and drag the slider and hit apply (one more click drag and one ok)
or
select cells, drag slider, hit function.

Either way, 100+ clicks versus ~4, and you can do it quickly enough to observe the differences as well as not forget what it was you went in there to do.

Anyway, if you want me to kick around some ideas for how to scale things, let me know, I'm happy to give it some thought and the brave alpha folks can try it out and say how terrible an idea it was.

[AbeFM]

I just saw this fantastic number input device on another app. It's on a free program, so you can all play with it.



Get the program on Play at https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... free&hl=en


In usage, when you go to edit a value (it'd be a cell or selection of cells in our case - after you press multi/add/set in our case, this wheel pops up. It's inherently logarithmic - each time around the wheel, you're tweaking the top digit.

In the case shown, I was on my second loop around - so a third of the way from 7 to 8 is 73. Careful drags give us the last digit, the + and - buttons alter 1/10 (in this case it'd turn 73.7 to 74.7 if one pressed +).

I still think it would be most useful to start centered on the number you're currently at (since often you want to make small changes, if you're at 1237.8 you're more likely to want to go to 1239 than 3400), but the input actually seemed reasonable. Of course, clicking on the central number should bring up a keyboard and let you type something - but this overcomes the issues of setting a date on your calendar by scrolling through 500 swypes to get to a large value by stepping up the effect each time around the loop. Perhaps a /10, *10 button to get you back and forth, but I think that's overkill.

[AbeFM]

Bump. This is kinda my "dream editor" - more work than some others, but it would be slick. Easy to use and fast.

Other things: Live dot (to show where on the table you are RIGHT NOW) and not having to press the "edit" button - if I'm in "tuning" I expect to be able to edit, it's just another button press... though maybe you're using that for some sort of "undo"?

cross posted from other thread - fits here much better:
There is an offline discussion on graph editing which likely deserves its own thread, but to keep everyone in the loop, here's what I sent trevor earlier:
It's actually surprisingly good, baring the universal problem of smartphones: You want to have precise control AND large range. I guess the only thing I could think of (aside from "jog" buttons (+/- 10%) is some kinda local zoom - so if the value is 60, a full screen swype would only go +/- 10, and it would take multiple motions to do more...

But: Displaying the exact number (in real time) next to the line would be huge! Then I could mess with it till it's done.

For both these simple graphs and the big tables, how about a dial which sets amount, then 4 buttons (+, -, *, divide) or even just to (+/*). I could roll a horizontal dial with an exponential scale and I could type over the number as well) then apply the function.



This would let you set to any value, increase or decrease by any amount/factor and tapping on the number would let you type in a number if desired. Flexible and small on the screen.

To use it for normal graph editing, it would just need to know to apply to X or Y

The other interesting input I saw was this:
Each time around the loop, you edit the next up/down digit, and the +/- edits the 1/10ths. Cool but more of an undertaking than just a blank you put a number in or a linear slider.

[AbeFM]

This is kinda in line with what I was picturing based on our discussions....