Microsquirt/MS2 based transmission controller

'Microsquirt' Transmission Control development and support.

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Tjabo
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Re: Microsquirt/MS2 based trans controller+ CAN

Post by Tjabo »

Sorry for the really dumb question guys, but how does this setup relate to the old MegaShift project, and where can I read up to learn more about this?

There are a few guys running Neons that are delving into the 41te transmission. It's an electronically controlled 4 speed that is a version of the 604 series as I understand it. The thing holding the high horsepower guys back from using it is the lack of the ability to adjust shift points, clutch pack engagement overlap, and other items like that. Is it possible that this project you're working on here might be able to accommodate the 41te if someone at least semi-competent would work on developing one?

If you have any questions back to me about this trans to help you determine the applicability of your controller and code, I can probably answer some of them, as I have a factory service manual for the minivans that have the trans in them. Also, RacerStev is a Neon automatic transmission genius and an MSer, so he might be able to answer questions as well.

Thanks!

Thad
--'98 Dodge Neon ACR Turbo - MS3 beta test car - Sold
--'97 BMW 540i/6spd - Single Front/Top Mount Turbo 550+ HP - MS3+MS3X V3.0 - Sold but ripping in Vegas
--'97 BMW 328i 5.3 L33/TH400 Swapped drift car - MS3+MS3X V3.0 Full Sequential - Turbos And Radiator In the Trunk 9.6@144 on a 1.55 60ft
devojet
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Re: Microsquirt/MS2 based trans controller+ CAN

Post by devojet »

The latest "Megashift" development can be found at www.msgpio.com. If you post the details on the gpio forum I'm sure Lance will take a look at it. He is currently working on the Megashift code and adding support for different gearboxes. The GPIO boards are very close to being released. Some production boards have been sent out to people for final beta testing.
26 Chev hotrod with a 1UZFE and MS3x, Flex fuel, GPIO Transmission control and LCDash.
Twin turbo LS3 powered Race boat with MS3pro and GPIO.
MS2 on a 22r in a Hilux (mates car).
MS2extra on a turbo EF Falcon (brothers car).
Toyota Supra 1jz MS2extra, COP.
13B Turbo MS2extra.
jsmcortina
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Re: Microsquirt/MS2 based trans controller+ CAN

Post by jsmcortina »

Buy hey, the Microsquirt is available now and who knows.... my code might actually work ?!

If nobody gets there sooner, I hope to get a 4L80E hooked up to it within the next few months.

James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

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LT401Vette
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Re: Microsquirt/MS2 based trans controller+ CAN

Post by LT401Vette »

Switching over tot the MS2 Extra code made reading the och through controller 0 work right away!

Writing to it through 0 still seems to be having troubles... I have been doing writes as single byte values and in chunks. I have added support for blockingFactor, so it will break larger writes into the 8 bytes that CAN can handle. Still they aren't taking and sometimes cause controller 0 to need a power cycle.

I'll have to dig a little further tomorrow.
Phil Tobin
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Tjabo
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Re: Microsquirt/MS2 based trans controller+ CAN

Post by Tjabo »

Thanks Devojet and James!

So unless I'm mistaken, this new code your working on (James) can operate through an MS2 daughterboard with necessary additional circuitry, or alternatively can use the microsquirt, true?

Is there somewhere I can read up on the relationship, or lack thereof, between this new trans control project you're working on and megashift?

To add one more rudimentary question James, you're using a separate MS2 as the controller and communicating with the engine's MS2 throught the CAN bus capabilities to share some of the inputs? ? ?

I've got a lot of reading to do if I can find out where!

Thad
--'98 Dodge Neon ACR Turbo - MS3 beta test car - Sold
--'97 BMW 540i/6spd - Single Front/Top Mount Turbo 550+ HP - MS3+MS3X V3.0 - Sold but ripping in Vegas
--'97 BMW 328i 5.3 L33/TH400 Swapped drift car - MS3+MS3X V3.0 Full Sequential - Turbos And Radiator In the Trunk 9.6@144 on a 1.55 60ft
devojet
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Re: Microsquirt/MS2 based trans controller+ CAN

Post by devojet »

Thats correct. One MS2 or Microsquirt is used to control the gearbox and it talks via CAN to the EFI controller (another MS2). Things like TPS, RPM, CLT etc are read over CAN via the transcontroller.

James's code and details can be found at http://www.jsm-net.demon.co.uk/trans

And the Megashift code and details can be found at http://www.msgpio.com/manuals/mshift/index.html

Cheers

Daniel
26 Chev hotrod with a 1UZFE and MS3x, Flex fuel, GPIO Transmission control and LCDash.
Twin turbo LS3 powered Race boat with MS3pro and GPIO.
MS2 on a 22r in a Hilux (mates car).
MS2extra on a turbo EF Falcon (brothers car).
Toyota Supra 1jz MS2extra, COP.
13B Turbo MS2extra.
LT401Vette
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Re: Microsquirt/MS2 based trans controller+ CAN

Post by LT401Vette »

James, on the CAN output channel reads, I was quite pleased to see I can send the ochCommand for both controllers and I get the results for both :)
Take the MS2-Extra och:
\x72\x00\x07\x00\x00\x00\x98
\x72\x07\x07\x00\x00\x00\x2c

combine them into:
\x72\x00\x07\x00\x00\x00\x98\x72\x07\x07\x00\x00\x00\x2c

and I get my 195 bytes (153+44) back with the expected values.

However, read performance suffers quit a lot.
Reading the MS2-Extra code alone and directly without CAN (Using "A") TunerStudio can get 34 records per second.

Reading The Trans Controller or MS2-Extra directly using the CAN enabled och command, I get 16 records per second.

Reading them both using CAN remote I am down to 9 records per second.

At 16 records per second, that is still acceptable for most purposes, 9 is starting to get a bit slow. If you added additional CAN controllers I can only imagine it will slow more.

So I was wondering if this is possible......
- Can The MS-Extra firmware do a check for the och command to identify the och command of it's own and bypass the CAN overhead?
- Can the MS-Extra firmware then pass the additional CAN requests on to the appropriate controllers, but then return what ever is n the local buffer for all the controllers? So the Data for the lead controller would be fresh data every time, but it may return the last update for some remote CAN controllers.
Phil Tobin
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Re: Microsquirt/MS2 based trans controller+ CAN

Post by jsmcortina »

I guess it would be possible to do some buffering as you suggest. The "master" controller would have to know how big the realtime data block is - however it can't really do this because the realtime data is held is an arbitrary block (i.e. block 6 in MS2, but different in GPIO.) We probably need to implement a "teach" command to specify how big the data blocks are and enable/disable buffering.

I have never timed the difference between the "A" and CAN-enabled realtime data commands, but I'm glad that you see "A" being faster because I spent a fair bit of time optimising the code to speed up the "A". The fact that a single byte is sent as the command is more optimal than multi-byte 'a' but different (faster) code is used to return the data too.

We'll need to get together with Al to come up with a standard 'speedup' method. There are plenty more letters in the alphabet that we could use to teach the controller and then fetch back remote data.

James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
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LT401Vette
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Re: Microsquirt/MS2 based trans controller+ CAN

Post by LT401Vette »

James,
I was pretty impressed with the speed of the A command. It seems to be giving me several more records per second than the MSII base code even with a good bit larger response payload (153 vs 112).

Ignore my too many bytes coming back from the Trans controller, it seems fine now. I think it may have just been some 3 AM math where 153 + 44 = 195 :)
I though I was getting the problem with going straight to the trans controller looking for 44, but it seems fine now so I don't know what i was looking at.

This might get a bit complicated in the firmware, but it would be nice to have the tuning software register for the OutputChannel fields it wants. That would reduce the payload a good bit and allow for some higher speed logging of focused fields.
Phil Tobin
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devojet
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Re: Microsquirt/MS2 based trans controller+ CAN

Post by devojet »

I read somewhere on the GPIO forum that the MS2 beta 3.1 code of Al's has some changes to the CAN code. I don't know any of the details though.

Cheers
Daniel
26 Chev hotrod with a 1UZFE and MS3x, Flex fuel, GPIO Transmission control and LCDash.
Twin turbo LS3 powered Race boat with MS3pro and GPIO.
MS2 on a 22r in a Hilux (mates car).
MS2extra on a turbo EF Falcon (brothers car).
Toyota Supra 1jz MS2extra, COP.
13B Turbo MS2extra.
LT401Vette
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Re: Microsquirt/MS2 based trans controller+ CAN

Post by LT401Vette »

James,
fyi, the latest version of TunerStudio 0.985.1 works with all the CANstuff including tour trans code.

Also, it supports blockingFactor, so if you put blockingFactor=8, it will break any chunk writes into 8 byte blocks for CAN pass through. That goes a whole lot faster than the byte by byte value writes :)
The blockingFactor=8 helps in the MS2Extra ini too if you have CAN_COMMAND set.

To hide any changes from MegaTune so it doesn't choke, you can put:

#unset TUNERSTUDIO in the ini. TunerStudio will actually always set TUNERSTUDIO, but MegaTune will ignore those blocks.

The next release will support loading the CAN devices in the same project so you can see gauges, datalog and change settings for any Controller on the CAN network. I intended to have it in this last release, but there were a few problems so I had to shut it off.
Phil Tobin
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Supporting all MegaSquirt versions and firmwares.
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devojet
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Re: Microsquirt/MS2 based trans controller+ CAN

Post by devojet »

Hi Phil,

I just put together my beta test GPIO board yesterday and have it set up on the bench with Lances trans code and connected to an MS2 running MS2extra 2.0.1. I will test the new Tunerstudio CAN stuff out latter and let you know how it goes. If you have any tests you would like me to try let me know.

Cheers

Daniel.
26 Chev hotrod with a 1UZFE and MS3x, Flex fuel, GPIO Transmission control and LCDash.
Twin turbo LS3 powered Race boat with MS3pro and GPIO.
MS2 on a 22r in a Hilux (mates car).
MS2extra on a turbo EF Falcon (brothers car).
Toyota Supra 1jz MS2extra, COP.
13B Turbo MS2extra.
devojet
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Re: Microsquirt/MS2 based trans controller+ CAN

Post by devojet »

Hi Phil,

I tried out tunerstudio with James's trans code on my GPIO board and it apears to work fine so far even when connected to the MS2's serial port and communicating via CAN. I can't wait to see your new CAN features.

Cheers

Daniel
26 Chev hotrod with a 1UZFE and MS3x, Flex fuel, GPIO Transmission control and LCDash.
Twin turbo LS3 powered Race boat with MS3pro and GPIO.
MS2 on a 22r in a Hilux (mates car).
MS2extra on a turbo EF Falcon (brothers car).
Toyota Supra 1jz MS2extra, COP.
13B Turbo MS2extra.
LT401Vette
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Re: Microsquirt/MS2 based trans controller+ CAN

Post by LT401Vette »

Good, I need to get a GPIO board and try out Lances version too. :)
I would like to get my car running on this as it is currently using a TCI unit. It would be nice to have it integrated so I can set it at once and log to a single file.
Phil Tobin
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Re: Microsquirt/MS2 based trans controller+ CAN

Post by jsmcortina »

Good to hear that people are testing out the CAN stuff.

Note that MS2/Extra support CAN passthrough _without_ the requirement to block data. This allows it to work with Megatune 2.25 and doesn't need 3.00 with the "blockingfactor" support. The MS2/Extra firmware takes care of the block itself. I believe this should lead to considerably faster comms that having to block the data, wait, re-send etc.
From an email Daniel sent, it sounds like I haven't fully included that enhancement into my trans code, so it probably will need the blocking factor if running as CAN master. I'll take a look soon.

James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
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LT401Vette
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Re: Microsquirt/MS2 based trans controller+ CAN

Post by LT401Vette »

No, the Trans code ini just has the writeChunk commented out. Good to know the controller is handling it. blockingFactor is much faster than value writes, but the controller would be much faster again.

I am having trouble getting writes to take through CAN. Say I do this:
- Open "Shift table 1-2"
- Change shift12[4] to 42
- Send a burn command for page zero

then read the page back... the write didn't take. If I plug directly into the Trans Controller, no problem. Sending via CAN I have played with the timings quite a bit and haven't gotten it to stick.

I am using MS2 Extra 2.0.1 on a MicroSquirt as the primary controller.

No problems with reading or och though.
Phil Tobin
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Re: Microsquirt/MS2 based trans controller+ CAN

Post by jsmcortina »

I tried my code on my 4L80E transmission today with the engine off. The solenoids work.
Tomorrow I'll have the torque convertor bolted up and should have the wheels turning and do some real testing.

One other tester has reported that the code shifts through the gears.

Anyone else trying this out?

A few weeks back I updated the website to include more details MS2/V3 wiring for trans control. I'm using the code on a Microsquirt.

James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
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devojet
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Re: Microsquirt/MS2 based trans controller+ CAN

Post by devojet »

That's great news. I'm still only testing on the bench.

regards
Daniel.
26 Chev hotrod with a 1UZFE and MS3x, Flex fuel, GPIO Transmission control and LCDash.
Twin turbo LS3 powered Race boat with MS3pro and GPIO.
MS2 on a 22r in a Hilux (mates car).
MS2extra on a turbo EF Falcon (brothers car).
Toyota Supra 1jz MS2extra, COP.
13B Turbo MS2extra.
jsmcortina
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Re: Microsquirt/MS2 based trans controller+ CAN

Post by jsmcortina »

Breakthrough day today!

The wheels turned and the trans controller shifted a gear.

I only tried reverse, first and second as the car is on stands.

This was with the Microsquirt standalone. Hopefully I'll work some more on the CAN elements tomorrow. I did find and fix a few bugs in the code and posted a new release.

James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
devojet
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Re: Microsquirt/MS2 based trans controller+ CAN

Post by devojet »

Hi James, do you have a list of bugs you fixed with this version?

Thanks,

Daniel
26 Chev hotrod with a 1UZFE and MS3x, Flex fuel, GPIO Transmission control and LCDash.
Twin turbo LS3 powered Race boat with MS3pro and GPIO.
MS2 on a 22r in a Hilux (mates car).
MS2extra on a turbo EF Falcon (brothers car).
Toyota Supra 1jz MS2extra, COP.
13B Turbo MS2extra.
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