4R70W Shifting Problems

[pcf_mark]

Fellas - I am hoping you can help me with my tune now that I FINALLY have everything connected and working.

Background:
5.0 Ford using MS2 v3.57 and MSextra code - engine runs great. It is a torquey engine that I usually operate at light throttle / low rpm.
4R70W using Microsquirt with latest code / wiring / set up information from James. I am using the Ford digital shift lever.

Behavior:
Two big issues I can't seem to solve - I never know what gear I am actually in and it does not seem to shift automatically.

In tuner studio when I have the gauge "gear selector" open it always reads -5 in the center and 8 on the actual gauge - clearly that is not right and it does not change regardless with how I move the selector lever. I would like some confirmation that microsquirt know I am in drive / 4th.

The "current gear" gauge never changes while driving. If I go into test mode engine off and select each of the gears using the buttons in the test mode tab I can hear the solenoids click and the current gear gauge updates to match. Also the green bars across the bottom highlight for the solenoids. This would indicate to me microsquirt can select the solenoids to change gears. If I exit test mode in 3rd gear the current selector gauge reads third gear. Then when I try to drive the truck it feels like it is starting in third. It never actually shifts.

I have the shift settings in automatic mode and tried rpm based shifting on and off. Can anyone see anything in the msq attached I may have missed? I had to craft all the settings the base tune was really corrupted with voltages like 323 - not sure what I did to cause that.

[jsmcortina]

"-5" for gear selector is "fault". As the controller doesn't know what position the selector is in, it won't try to select a gear and will be in the default/limp gear - often 3rd or 4th.

James

[pcf_mark]

Thanks I'll re-check my wiring. Does the engine need to be running for the gauge position to be valid (trans pump running) or if I am moving the selector lever it should change with engine off?

[jsmcortina]

The 4R70W uses an external selector position switch doesn't it? It is the GM gearboxes that use internal pressure switches that require the engine to be running.

James

[pcf_mark]

I just went over my wiring and I have a question which could be the root of the problem.

I have 12 going to the transmission from a fuse. The backup lights work so I know that is good (the switching happens in the gear selector for back up lights) but I verified with a test light. For the gear selector there are three wires:

Ford TR1 - 1st gear - to microsquirt pin 12 / "selector A"
Ford TR2 - 2nd gear - to microsquirt pin 11 / "selector B"
Ford TR4 - 4th/od/high gear/drive to microsquirt pin 29 / "selector C"

There is no third gear selectable from what I have researched. Perhaps my TR4 should be wired to microsquirt pin 34 / Selector pos D?

The other item is where / how does microsquirt read the voltage to know the selector position? I have a wire on my transmission "signal return" that I have wired to pin 20 sensor ground. Perhaps this is incorrect?

Thanks for your help!

[jsmcortina]

The "Selector Pos D" input is not used in 4R70W mode.

James

[pcf_mark]

Thanks for confirming. Then my selector appears wired correctly if pin 20 is sensor return.

In the base settings tab I have 4R70W analog selected and entered this under analogue gear voltages:
P 4.18v
N 3.43v
R 2.64v
1 .59v
2 1.15v
3 0v
4 1.83v

On what pin are these voltages expected? I checked 11,12 and 29 in all gears I get 4.96 volts on pin 12 in D - 2 - 1 only.

Maybe I missed a setting but I could recite the pdf by now I have read it so many times! Attached is the .msq if that sheds any light on it.

Thanks!

[jsmcortina]

Confused...!

You have digital wiring, but you've selected "analog" ??

James

[pcf_mark]

This terminology confuses me as well! Should I be using switched? If so how / where does MS see the voltages? I have the three wires coming from the shifter sensor (re-stating so you do not need to read up the thread)

Ford TR1 - 1st gear - to microsquirt pin 12 / "selector A"
Ford TR2 - 2nd gear - to microsquirt pin 11 / "selector B"
Ford TR4 - 4th/od/high gear/drive to microsquirt pin 29 / "selector C"

Should the voltage be 0 or 5 volts on each of these depending on the gear selected and match the table in the manual? i.e. voltage on A, none on B and none on C for drive? If you can confirm I can start troubleshooting. A quick test reveals I have 4.96 volts pin 12 only and <1 volt on the others.

Thanks

[jsmcortina]

Yours is a digital switch type. Analog uses one wire only and provides an analogue voltage.

Changes your software setting.

James

[pcf_mark]

I switched my transmission selection from analog to switched. Same behavior - this leads me to think I may have a switch or wiring problem. Based on the wiring document selector position wires are all "in" so MS is expecting 5 volts or 0 volts on each of these to indicate gear selection - correct? With that info I can start to troubleshoot why I do not see voltages on the three wires as I change gears.

Thanks for sticking with me.

[pcf_mark]

I did a full power down and re-start after changing to 4R70W switched and I did get a change. I now have the selector reading "2". However when I move the shift lever it does not change. I could possibly troubleshoot it if I knew what this meant from the manual:

"0 = ground to TCU, 1 = open circuit to TCU (high). Ground-switching input expected"

0 = connectivity to sensor ground and 1 = no continuity to sensor ground?

When I check between pin 11, 12, 29 and sensor return pin 20 I get continuity across all three in park and neutral. In Reverse and Drive I get continuity from 11, 12 to sensor ground pin 20 but pin 29 is open. I have no idea what this means but I wold expect as these changed to see the selector change in tuner studio but it only stays at "2". Looking at the chart in the manual page 28 I see that 1 is true for all three wires in second gear.

[jsmcortina]

"0 = ground to TCU, 1 = open circuit to TCU (high). Ground-switching input expected"

0 = connectivity to sensor ground and 1 = no continuity to sensor ground?

Yes.

James

[pcf_mark]

Thanks for the clarification. I added the current .msq and alog file while I change from park through 1st and back again using the manual lever.

I have 5v from the microsquirt O2 power going TO the sensor return on the transmission switch now. Is there a preferred wire for powering the switch? When the switch operates this should direct 5v to 11, 12 , 29.

In TS I get 2nd by default (no wires connected). When I connect 11, 12, 29 per the diagram and put the shifter in 3rd I also get 3rd in TS (voltage on C none on A and B). However when I put the sifter in 4th/drive it defaults back to 2nd in TS. If I drive the truck in 3rd I get up and down shifting through 1-2-3 which is great! I think if I can get TS to recognize 4th I'm fixed. I tried to prove this by putting 5v to B & C at the same time (per the chart in the manual) and I get 3rd every time.

Hopefully you can shed some light on this I'm stumped. Thanks!

[jsmcortina]

Thanks for the clarification.

I have 5v from the microsquirt O2 power going TO the sensor return on the transmission switch now. Is there a preferred wire for powering the switch? When the switch operates this should direct 5v to 11, 12 , 29.

No. It is a ground switch. The inputs to the Microsquirt will show 5V when not connected (there's an internal "pullup" resistor) and are connected to sensor-ground by the switch.

James

[midnite88]

James, the 4R70W uses 4 wires for range feedback, the documents for the micro only show 3 range input wires, what is it using for the 4th one?

[pcf_mark]

OK I had it wired correctly the first time.

Please confirm that I should see 5v on 11, 12, 29 to sensor ground? If so I have an internal problem I only ever have 5 V on one regardless of what I do.

Is that firmware controlled or do I have an MS internal problem?

Thanks

[midnite88]

James, think I may be onto something, the 4L80 and 4R70W range pattern are not the same per all the documents I've looked through, actually the E4OD and the 4R70W digital ranges are the same. Is there a way to change the s19 file to update this?

EDIT* Found some other discrepancies, The gear ratios when E40D is selected are wrong, the ratios shown in TS are in fact 4R70W ratios

4R70W vs. E4OD
1st 2.84 2.71
2nd 1.55 1.54
3rd 1.00 1.00
4th 0.70 0.71

Hope this helps.

[ashford]

James, think I may be onto something, the 4L80 and 4R70W range pattern are not the same per all the documents I've looked through, actually the E4OD and the 4R70W digital ranges are the same. Is there a way to change the s19 file to update this?

.

the 4r70,aode, and 4l80 share the same gear logic on the shift solenoids, not the input. this may be what you are confusing.

[midnite88]

Looking through the documentation, He shows the Range selection as being the same as the 4L80E, which its not, its the same as the E4OD.