Micro V3 4l80e Drop In VSS2 ( Solved )

'Microsquirt' Transmission Control development and support.

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Micro V3 4l80e Drop In VSS2 ( Solved )

Postby sgilbert1967 » Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:42 pm

Got the Micro V3 4l80e drop in harness, it replaced a working controller just shifted to MS3 ultimate....
The issue I am having is under the selections for speed sensor there is only Bss1 for MPH....which on a 4l80e is turbine aka input speed....and there by changes with stall....I can't find where to force it to look at VSS2 ( output shaft ) for mph so I can have accurate mph for shifts and indication......

even on the gauges under design mode if you look at any TCU properties.....there is only VSS1 for a selection.....

any help would be appreciated I have the ultimate and trans control combo and this is one of my last nagging issues....

thanks
Shawn
Last edited by sgilbert1967 on Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Mega V3 4l80e Drop In VSS2

Postby nathaninwa » Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:52 pm

Do you have both vr sensors connected? On the pnp harness I bet this is setup to collect rpm data which your most likely getting over canbus. The rear vr sensor is actual ground speed and works proper

Choose digital as input type, and choose CAN VSS as input
Volvo 940, 2jzgte, MS3Pro, 815/692 @ 27psi.
240z, LS3 MS3pro/micro I/O 8.28@173
86 454/4l80e, ms3pro/micro. Tow rig
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Re: Mega V3 4l80e Drop In VSS2

Postby sgilbert1967 » Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:56 pm

Thanks for your response Nathaniel,
I'm looking at photos of the harness andnits labelled input speed sensor, and output sensor....since I'm familiar with 4l80e and have ran several controllers from stand alone to Holley on it...I knew input is front aka turbine and output aka output shaft as rear so I plugged em in that way....however....

being as how there is only, within the TCU settings a selection for VSS/Driveline which I assumed would be VSS2 ( labeled output speed sensor ), it's clear to me that selection is using the data from the input speed sensor ( aka vss1).....
So I reread the PDF...for "Trans Control -1.0.PDF....

and I find a section saying the output shaft VSS VR sensor ( the one near the rear of trans ) is connected to VR1!!!!
then is goes on to say "input shaft sensor ( front one aka turbine speed) is connected to VR2 " "WHEN running alongside a megasquirt ecu and fetching engine RPM over CAN"!!!! it eludes to the fact that in stand alone VR2 is used for engine rpm and input shaft sensor cannot be used????

I do have the micro hooked to the ms3 ultimate via CAN, do you take that to read they want me to switch the inputs? that would suck later for slip ect....

I have thought about on the Megasquirt side specifying vss2 or Can for indication BUT the TCU needs an accurate input source for its calculations independent of the MS3, I would think...

I have no selection for Digital on the TCU side just Wheel, Driveline ( which should be vss2 aka output sensor, and pulse per mile; which I've used in hptuners)....its clearly using input speed when it should use output I just don't see a selection on the TCU...It even prepopulstes the correct 40 tooth for output and 31 input teeth....

I don't get it, if that drop down simply let me select vss2 aka output we would he set....and I find it curious all gauges related to TCU on the MS3 side ONLY have VSS1 as a selection in the properties dialog.....ug.....
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Re: Mega V3 4l80e Drop In VSS2

Postby nathaninwa » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:06 pm

I think I follow what your saying. I just looked at my tcu settings and vss position is set to driveline. Afaik micro uses the rear vr as vss and front as engine rpm in a carb type install.

I'd ignore what wires are used on micro per there naming. We can't have vss2 on the tranny. In ms3, vss1 is always driven wheels and vss2 is non driven, so that would add confusion. It's vss input and rpm input
Volvo 940, 2jzgte, MS3Pro, 815/692 @ 27psi.
240z, LS3 MS3pro/micro I/O 8.28@173
86 454/4l80e, ms3pro/micro. Tow rig
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Re: Micro V3 4l80e Drop In VSS2

Postby sgilbert1967 » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:17 pm

my file ect...
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NewScale_4.50_6.msq
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Re: Micro V3 4l80e Drop In VSS2

Postby nathaninwa » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:21 pm

that's just your engine tune
Volvo 940, 2jzgte, MS3Pro, 815/692 @ 27psi.
240z, LS3 MS3pro/micro I/O 8.28@173
86 454/4l80e, ms3pro/micro. Tow rig
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Re: Mega V3 4l80e Drop In VSS2

Postby sgilbert1967 » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:26 pm

nathaninwa wrote:I think I follow what your saying. I just looked at my tcu settings and vss position is set to driveline. Afaik micro uses the rear vr as vss and front as engine rpm in a carb type install.

I'd ignore what wires are used on micro per there naming. We can't have vss2 on the tranny. In ms3, vss1 is always driven wheels and vss2 is non driven, so that would add confusion. It's vss input and rpm input


So you think I have it hooked up correct output shaft sensor on the drop in harness to VSS2 in trans ( aka output shaft ) input is hooked to vss1 in trans BUT even when the software refers to VSS or VSS1....it is actually using VSS2 ( aka output shaft sensor ) regardless of what the software labels it? So I have some other problem? it's acting just like it's VSS1 on trans changing mph with load ect and gear....man this is all that's really hanging me up!!!!!

I see what you/PDF are saying...that if you don't have a rpm input via CAN you must forgoe your input speed sensor as it needs it for RPM......so it's irrelevant to this conversation....when the software specifies VSS, Driveline, or VSS1 it really means output shaft ( aka vss2 even if it's pinned VR1 in the harness )....gah!!!!! lol
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Re: Micro V3 4l80e Drop In VSS2

Postby sgilbert1967 » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:28 pm

nathaninwa wrote:that's just your engine tune


ooops still new sorry....
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Re: Micro V3 4l80e Drop In VSS2

Postby nathaninwa » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:34 pm

I think the confusion comes from labeling the front vr sensor as vss1 and rear vr sensor as vss2

For microsquirt the front VR sensor is rpm input and rear VR sensor is vss1. Your tune looks correct

Under advance engine in the engine tune you'll find speed and gears, setup vss1 as described earlier

Also, have you combined projects? Near the end of the tcu PDF it explains how to create a single project
Volvo 940, 2jzgte, MS3Pro, 815/692 @ 27psi.
240z, LS3 MS3pro/micro I/O 8.28@173
86 454/4l80e, ms3pro/micro. Tow rig
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Re: Micro V3 4l80e Drop In VSS2

Postby sgilbert1967 » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:51 pm

One thing I did have set wrong is the EPC frequency is was at 290 and the menu says the 500s one is for later 4l80e which I have...so I changed that and will test
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Re: Micro V3 4l80e Drop In VSS2

Postby sgilbert1967 » Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:05 pm

I'll look into if they are combined, I've never interfaces directly with the TCU as I don't have the plug to make a rs232 connection to the drop in harness.....i connected initially by detecting it via can....its a drop down on my tuner studio ms3 tune to connect to it.....

that's why I don't see how the MS3 speed inputs could help as they are after the fact, the TCU I would assume uses it's data first for shift metrics....

I see where you are talking about...
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Re: Micro V3 4l80e Drop In VSS2

Postby sgilbert1967 » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:16 pm

Thanks for trying to help, I did make the changes and changed the EPC Freq....ill try it tomorrow and report for posterity....

I'll also say on logs the TCU is syncd correctly with tps, clt, map, rpm ect...i even plotted it.......

I didn't know it was called combining but yes looks like I have.....the drop in harness has a square 4 pin connector for rs232 but no male came to wire up nor have I been able to find one just searching.....i hate to cut that plug so I can rs232 and update the firmware....

I wasn't able to update it over CAN...
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Re: Micro V3 4l80e Drop In VSS2

Postby nathaninwa » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:41 pm

Is it working as expected now?

You will need to connect over the rs232 to update the controller. Can you see what firmware your on, there hasn't been that many
Volvo 940, 2jzgte, MS3Pro, 815/692 @ 27psi.
240z, LS3 MS3pro/micro I/O 8.28@173
86 454/4l80e, ms3pro/micro. Tow rig
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Re: Micro V3 4l80e Drop In VSS2

Postby sgilbert1967 » Sat Jul 01, 2017 5:47 am

I'm letting my neighbors sleep just a bit more then we will find out bahahaha....after the first lawn mower fires up its all fair game LOL....

that drop in harness has a weird square 4 pin...i hate to cut it off to wire rs232...if it wasn't a firmware id just make something to temp in there but if it came loose during flash I assume that's bad hehe.....

I'm not sure on firmware I'll double check......its the new bundle with drop in harness came in last week.....i know the sensor is good I've had 2 other controllers on it.....no problems...i even use it for traction control.....

thanks nate appreciate the help
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Re: Micro V3 4l80e Drop In VSS2

Postby sgilbert1967 » Sat Jul 01, 2017 5:52 am

how CAN I tell over CAN, the ecu is running the latest not sure about the TCU...
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Re: Micro V3 4l80e Drop In VSS2

Postby sgilbert1967 » Sat Jul 01, 2017 3:00 pm

I can confirm nothing corrected it, I am going to crawl under and make double sure I didn't plug them in backwards because it really acts like its working of the input speed...as in the MPH literally changes based on what gear your in....

Thanks
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Re: Micro V3 4l80e Drop In VSS2

Postby nathaninwa » Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:18 am

You should post a datalog and the newest tune file
Volvo 940, 2jzgte, MS3Pro, 815/692 @ 27psi.
240z, LS3 MS3pro/micro I/O 8.28@173
86 454/4l80e, ms3pro/micro. Tow rig
nathaninwa
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Re: Micro V3 4l80e Drop In VSS2

Postby sgilbert1967 » Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:54 am

Ok.....
Attachments
TCU_CurrentTune_2.msq
(25.8 KiB) Downloaded 10 times
NewScale_4.50_14.msq
(272.81 KiB) Downloaded 9 times
2017-07-01_14.34.40.msl
(1.18 MiB) Downloaded 10 times
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Re: Micro V3 4l80e Drop In VSS2

Postby nathaninwa » Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:48 am

something is odd. check the wiring like you said. Might need to change the shift tables, try manual mode and run through each gear. that log shows you in first gear most the time with a second gear change near the end
Volvo 940, 2jzgte, MS3Pro, 815/692 @ 27psi.
240z, LS3 MS3pro/micro I/O 8.28@173
86 454/4l80e, ms3pro/micro. Tow rig
nathaninwa
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Re: Micro V3 4l80e Drop In VSS2

Postby sgilbert1967 » Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:52 pm

Solved!!!!!
LAST night ( it's hot ), I jacked up the car to make sure I had each wire in the correct spot because it really did seem backwards.....mph showing at idle ( DYI said that could just be noise ) and it changing mph seemingly on load...... well sure enough they were wired correctly....output in rear and input to front of trans.....i could even tell the way the harness was laid out this was as intended....but based on observation I decided to swap them anyway which you can tell the harness ISN'T laid out for.....but it barely reaches, not as tidy but reaches ( they have output lead kinda tucked with main plug as they should nicely )....Solved....must be pinned wrong at the connector.....

No MPH reading setting still barely 1mph off my gps....nice and steady and predictable....ran about 12 psi though it and I happen to know what my stall slip is already at that HP ( approx 1000, 630hp base engine)....which is 8-12% depending on trans temp...boom right on the money...totally working perfectly now!!!!! Before anyone reading this craps on DIY....ive had TWO of the major market vendors mis pin major areas of the harness in just the last 2 years....can happen to anyone ....they are labeled correctly for the lay out of harness but evidently not pinned correctly.....

Happy so far...got my TCU working perfectly with my MS3 ultimate!!!
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