AODE/4R70W Analog Issues *Fixed*
Moderators: jsmcortina, muythaibxr
AODE/4R70W Analog Issues *Fixed*
There isn't a whole lot of information about running the AODE/4R70W with Microsquirt while using an analog sensor. While I managed to get my system operational, it is fairly limited.
BLUF: The analog gear position settings for the 4R70W should only have 3 voltages instead of 4 (or a resistance value... see below), and OD should be controlled via switched input (Selector D?)
So let me get back to the details here. Ford uses a low voltage signal and reads resistance of the MLPS circuit, much like a traditional thermistor. The compatibility with Micro requires either replacing your harness and running the digital MLPS... OR, opening up the analog MLPS and soldering a jumper to the beginning of the circuit, adding a wire to the harness, and using TPSv to supply 5v and take the shifter position out as a SIGRTN. I opted for the latter.
The issue with this is the sensor only has 6 internal voltage posistions (P,R,N,D,2,1) while TS is looking for P,R,N,4,3,2,1. This is obviously an issue that could probably be cleaned up relatively easily with a small code change to the firmware. I have dug into it slightly, but cant quite find the correct places to make the necessary changes.
As of right now, I can set manual shift mode and use 1,2,3 forward gears... but OD is inop (no 4th voltage). If I set Auto mode, I have to set 3rd gear voltage to 0.00, and 4th to the voltage seen in D position. Then allow the Micro to control when to shift into OD. This method seems to be working fine... BUT. I cant shut off OD like I could with the factory PCM (button push).
I have more questions... but lets start here.
No MSQ attached, because it isn't needed.
BLUF: The analog gear position settings for the 4R70W should only have 3 voltages instead of 4 (or a resistance value... see below), and OD should be controlled via switched input (Selector D?)
So let me get back to the details here. Ford uses a low voltage signal and reads resistance of the MLPS circuit, much like a traditional thermistor. The compatibility with Micro requires either replacing your harness and running the digital MLPS... OR, opening up the analog MLPS and soldering a jumper to the beginning of the circuit, adding a wire to the harness, and using TPSv to supply 5v and take the shifter position out as a SIGRTN. I opted for the latter.
The issue with this is the sensor only has 6 internal voltage posistions (P,R,N,D,2,1) while TS is looking for P,R,N,4,3,2,1. This is obviously an issue that could probably be cleaned up relatively easily with a small code change to the firmware. I have dug into it slightly, but cant quite find the correct places to make the necessary changes.
As of right now, I can set manual shift mode and use 1,2,3 forward gears... but OD is inop (no 4th voltage). If I set Auto mode, I have to set 3rd gear voltage to 0.00, and 4th to the voltage seen in D position. Then allow the Micro to control when to shift into OD. This method seems to be working fine... BUT. I cant shut off OD like I could with the factory PCM (button push).
I have more questions... but lets start here.
No MSQ attached, because it isn't needed.
Last edited by 64bit on Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1994 Mustang Cobra
351w Turbo w/MS3 GoldBox xTra
4R70W Analog w/ Microsquirt TCU
351w Turbo w/MS3 GoldBox xTra
4R70W Analog w/ Microsquirt TCU
Re: AODE/4R70W Analog Issues (requires code correction)
Anyone want to field this one?
Before I pull the Micro out and just run a Baumann.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Before I pull the Micro out and just run a Baumann.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
1994 Mustang Cobra
351w Turbo w/MS3 GoldBox xTra
4R70W Analog w/ Microsquirt TCU
351w Turbo w/MS3 GoldBox xTra
4R70W Analog w/ Microsquirt TCU
Re: AODE/4R70W Analog Issues (requires code correction)
I feel your pain, I tried to use a Microsquirt for my E4OD, but it's just too experimental for me. I imagine most of James's time is used up with Megasquirt development.
FYI, the Quick4 is pretty awesome
FYI, the Quick4 is pretty awesome
1995 Ford Lightning. Dart based 427 Windsor, Novi 2000, full sequential, E-85, etc. MS3X/v3.57
http://www.buildpics.org/
http://www.buildpics.org/
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Re: AODE/4R70W Analog Issues (requires code correction)
I'll try to have a look later this week.
James
James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk
My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
Re: AODE/4R70W Analog Issues (requires code correction)
I greatly appreciate it. If you need any further info from me, ill be watching the thread.jsmcortina wrote:I'll try to have a look later this week.
James
1994 Mustang Cobra
351w Turbo w/MS3 GoldBox xTra
4R70W Analog w/ Microsquirt TCU
351w Turbo w/MS3 GoldBox xTra
4R70W Analog w/ Microsquirt TCU
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Re: AODE/4R70W Analog Issues (requires code correction)
That was a long week, looking today.
James
James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk
My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
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Re: AODE/4R70W Analog Issues (requires code correction)
What do you think would be the best way for this to work?64bit wrote:As of right now, I can set manual shift mode and use 1,2,3 forward gears... but OD is inop (no 4th voltage). If I set Auto mode, I have to set 3rd gear voltage to 0.00, and 4th to the voltage seen in D position. Then allow the Micro to control when to shift into OD. This method seems to be working fine... BUT. I cant shut off OD like I could with the factory PCM (button push).
I would expect the 'D' position to be set for 4th gear voltage.
What is or isn't happening with the OD button?
Oh yes it is and a datalog showing any problems you have.No MSQ attached, because it isn't needed.
James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk
My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
Re: AODE/4R70W Analog Issues (requires code correction)
So, like I said... There are 6 positions on the shift position sensor.
P, R, N, D, 2, 1.
There is no 4th gear voltage available.
So, my suggestion is to make OD a push button disable, just like stock. So the logic would be that OD can only be used when the switch is on, and the car is in D.
If you honestly think my MSQ will help. I'll send it to you, but I've posted all the info.
P, R, N, D, 2, 1.
There is no 4th gear voltage available.
So, my suggestion is to make OD a push button disable, just like stock. So the logic would be that OD can only be used when the switch is on, and the car is in D.
If you honestly think my MSQ will help. I'll send it to you, but I've posted all the info.
Last edited by 64bit on Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
1994 Mustang Cobra
351w Turbo w/MS3 GoldBox xTra
4R70W Analog w/ Microsquirt TCU
351w Turbo w/MS3 GoldBox xTra
4R70W Analog w/ Microsquirt TCU
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Re: AODE/4R70W Analog Issues (requires code correction)
I'm pretty sure that when I implemented this I was told that the button was OD CANCEL. I think I originally made it OD enable, but was told that was wrong.
I have never seen a vehicle with this trans. My cars are manuals.
James
I have never seen a vehicle with this trans. My cars are manuals.
James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk
My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
Re: AODE/4R70W Analog Issues (requires code correction)
My 1995 Lightning is definitely push-button *disable*
1995 Ford Lightning. Dart based 427 Windsor, Novi 2000, full sequential, E-85, etc. MS3X/v3.57
http://www.buildpics.org/
http://www.buildpics.org/
Re: AODE/4R70W Analog Issues (requires code correction)
Yes, on a factory car, You push the button to disable the use of OD. But you're also talking about a completely different PCM and tuning system.
James, what do you need from me... That will help you easier understand what I need for this to work?
James, what do you need from me... That will help you easier understand what I need for this to work?
1994 Mustang Cobra
351w Turbo w/MS3 GoldBox xTra
4R70W Analog w/ Microsquirt TCU
351w Turbo w/MS3 GoldBox xTra
4R70W Analog w/ Microsquirt TCU
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Re: AODE/4R70W Analog Issues (requires code correction)
Tune and log. I won't look at it without them.64bit wrote:James, what do you need from me... That will help you easier understand what I need for this to work?
What exactly isn't working with the "OD disable" button input? I need a clear explanation that matches what is shown in the datalog.
James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk
My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
Re: AODE/4R70W Analog Issues (requires code correction)
A log isn't going to help you, because the issue is directly in the firmware settings of the trans control software.
As you see in this picture, I have 4R70W Analog selected.
There is no option to control OD with a switch... And there should be.
In this image you will see that I have to set voltages for 1st, 2nd, 4th, N, Reverse, and park.
Your programming calls for 7 voltages, and the sensor cannot physically produce them.
You need to fix this to be P, R, N, 3, 2, 1.
Here is an internal shot of the sensor, so you'll have a better understanding.
After modification, each one of the pads shown, correlate to a gear position. Again... 6 positions, not 7.
There is no shifter location for 4th(OD).
So the 4R70W analog setting needs to have an OD cancel (or enable) feature by button.
I do not want to post my MSQ. I can put my project on my Google drive and PM you the link. But I will not post it here.
As you see in this picture, I have 4R70W Analog selected.
There is no option to control OD with a switch... And there should be.
In this image you will see that I have to set voltages for 1st, 2nd, 4th, N, Reverse, and park.
Your programming calls for 7 voltages, and the sensor cannot physically produce them.
You need to fix this to be P, R, N, 3, 2, 1.
Here is an internal shot of the sensor, so you'll have a better understanding.
After modification, each one of the pads shown, correlate to a gear position. Again... 6 positions, not 7.
There is no shifter location for 4th(OD).
So the 4R70W analog setting needs to have an OD cancel (or enable) feature by button.
I do not want to post my MSQ. I can put my project on my Google drive and PM you the link. But I will not post it here.
1994 Mustang Cobra
351w Turbo w/MS3 GoldBox xTra
4R70W Analog w/ Microsquirt TCU
351w Turbo w/MS3 GoldBox xTra
4R70W Analog w/ Microsquirt TCU
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Re: AODE/4R70W Analog Issues (requires code correction)
It does.64bit wrote:So the 4R70W analog setting needs to have an OD cancel (or enable) feature by button.
James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk
My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
Re: AODE/4R70W Analog Issues (requires code correction)
Not according to what Tunerstudio is showing.
1994 Mustang Cobra
351w Turbo w/MS3 GoldBox xTra
4R70W Analog w/ Microsquirt TCU
351w Turbo w/MS3 GoldBox xTra
4R70W Analog w/ Microsquirt TCU
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Re: AODE/4R70W Analog Issues (requires code correction)
Without MSQ and MSL, I'm not able to help you. Sorry.
James
James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk
My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
Re: AODE/4R70W Analog Issues (requires code correction)
youve got a link in your PM. although they arent going to help.jsmcortina wrote:Without MSQ and MSL, I'm not able to help you. Sorry.
James
1994 Mustang Cobra
351w Turbo w/MS3 GoldBox xTra
4R70W Analog w/ Microsquirt TCU
351w Turbo w/MS3 GoldBox xTra
4R70W Analog w/ Microsquirt TCU
Re: AODE/4R70W Analog Issues (requires code correction)
I could be reading these incorrectly... but im pretty sure
the 4l80E has four manual drive positions on the shifter. same as the 4L60E. The 4R70W, both analog and digital, as well as the AODE found in the 94-95 Mustang (for example) only have three manually selectable drive positions.
should include#define TRANS_SELECTOR_D (trans == TRANS_E4ODA) || (trans == TRANS_E4ODS) || (trans == TRANS_W4A33)
I found these in trans_init.ctrans == TRANS_4R70WA
the 4l80E has four manual drive positions on the shifter. same as the 4L60E. The 4R70W, both analog and digital, as well as the AODE found in the 94-95 Mustang (for example) only have three manually selectable drive positions.
Last edited by 64bit on Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
1994 Mustang Cobra
351w Turbo w/MS3 GoldBox xTra
4R70W Analog w/ Microsquirt TCU
351w Turbo w/MS3 GoldBox xTra
4R70W Analog w/ Microsquirt TCU
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Re: AODE/4R70W Analog Issues (requires code correction)
Yes it looks like TRANS_4R70WA needs to be included in that one line.
I think that a big part of the problem here is documentation. The manual doesn't mention that the OD button switch needs to connect to selector input D.
I could really do with more input from customers that have working installs to validate the manual. As far as I know only 4L80E and 4L60E have off the shelf wiring available, so the rest of these applications are presently DIY.
James
I think that a big part of the problem here is documentation. The manual doesn't mention that the OD button switch needs to connect to selector input D.
I could really do with more input from customers that have working installs to validate the manual. As far as I know only 4L80E and 4L60E have off the shelf wiring available, so the rest of these applications are presently DIY.
James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk
My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
Re: AODE/4R70W Analog Issues (requires code correction)
Well, I looked into your 1.0.2beta2 firmware and upon the initial code inspection, it seems to show the 4R70WA as having the OD switch functions. I am running the 1.0.1 firmware on the main msextra page.
I will get 1.0.2beta2 flashed in and report my findings.
The car runs and drives, and I can provide the documentation necessary to release an updated version of the trans manual. But the OD functionality is critical... Especially to me.
I will get 1.0.2beta2 flashed in and report my findings.
The car runs and drives, and I can provide the documentation necessary to release an updated version of the trans manual. But the OD functionality is critical... Especially to me.
1994 Mustang Cobra
351w Turbo w/MS3 GoldBox xTra
4R70W Analog w/ Microsquirt TCU
351w Turbo w/MS3 GoldBox xTra
4R70W Analog w/ Microsquirt TCU