Ford 300 Modifications

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Ford 300 Modifications

Postby TylerFT » Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:30 pm

Hello all,

I have a 1985 Ford F250 with the 300CID inline 6 engine. The truck itself is sitting around right now and waiting until I have the time, money and space to work on it. The engine is sitting on a stand and most of the long block is stripped off. I plan to start working on the truck in about the next year but have decided that I would like to start working on my engine plans in the near future. I don't have dreams of major power in this truck but would like to do something that I think is quite unique and would make a great learning experience and story. I would love to fab it up with an HX35 turbo and EFI.

Soon I will be pulling the head off the engine and checking out the internals to ensure that everything is clean. The engine has about 150k miles on it but that's pretty low for a 300. I want to get the whole engine cleaned up and ready to start working with. I know a good place to start is with simply checking and replacing old components such as the water pump, switching to steel timing gears, etc. However, I know very little about what I would need to run the turbo and EFI. I believe the EFI system would make it a lot easier in the end to run the turbo and would add that edge of uniqueness. Physically adding the turbo should also be pretty straight forward.

So, the part where I really need help. I want to run a full multi-port injection system. Later years of the 300 featured MPFI systems, Speed Density for several years and MAF for a couple, so it is possible to get the components from another engine and install them on mine. The issue is that these components include two halves of an intake manifold and the EFI head. I know any year 300 head flows pretty poorly so a rebuild of the head is in line. This will most likely lead to porting the head and reseating for some larger valves. I'll have to delete the mechanical fuel pump and run an electronic pump to support EFI. The information that I'm looking for is whether or not the old EFI components would be a good place to start or if I should go for full custom fab on it as well as what other components I will need. I would like to start plotting out what I will need to do this to make it easier to do later.

If possible, I think it would be run a coil near plug ignition system but I don't know it would be implemented. I plan on getting an MS3-pro to run the system but I need to know what else would be needed. So I'm open to suggestions on what I should get for anything else including ignitions systems, sensors, and whatever else may go into a system.

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2010 Dodge RAM 1500 TRX4 - 5.7L, Leveled, 35's
1985 Ford F250 - 300CID I6, working to fix it as soon as I can
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Re: Ford 300 Modifications

Postby billr » Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:22 pm

I would use a stock EFI head/intake if they are reasonably available. Custom fabbing of an intake can get to be a big project all unto itself, so I would put that off (maybe forever) until the general conversion is done and successful. I think little of the MS-install wiring, sensors, etc would have to be redone if you change the intake (and head) later.

How much are you going to boost the MAP? It sounds like you are planning on using the basic engine "as-is", so I would sure check to be sure the stock rods, pistons, and even CR are suitable for the boost you intend. My gut-feeling is that boosting the MAP will compensate for less-than-optimum intake flow paths, if you only want modest power gains, so maybe that porting and valve upgrade stuff isn't all that cost-effective?
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Re: Ford 300 Modifications

Postby TylerFT » Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:05 pm

billr wrote:How much are you going to boost the MAP? It sounds like you are planning on using the basic engine "as-is", so I would sure check to be sure the stock rods, pistons, and even CR are suitable for the boost you intend. My gut-feeling is that boosting the MAP will compensate for less-than-optimum intake flow paths, if you only want modest power gains, so maybe that porting and valve upgrade stuff isn't all that cost-effective?


From what I've read, running 7-8 lbs. of boost on stock internals is pretty safe with these engines. I'm not planning on doing too much with building the internals right now so long as it is good upon visual inspection, removing the head and oil pan to check out the internals including cylinder walls. The engine ran great for the three years that I had it before the accident. Still ran like a top even afterwards so I'm not expecting to find anything too bad. The stock compression ratio for a carbed engine is 8.0:1 and swapping to the EFI head apparently will make it about 8.5:1 and it's a direct swap. Summit Racing sells a 0.020" head gasket spacer shim that I could get to help bring the CR back down a little. I have seen some listings of 300's with 100k-150k miles that are around $400 for the whole engine so it's not terribly costly even if I have to go about it that way. Otherwise there are local Ford pages on Facebook of people that sell the parts from time to time.

I've continued developing my ideas for this project and I'm now thinking about welding up a test frame to put the engine and trans on and then pulling the EEC-IV computer and harness from the truck. My end goal is to completely phase out the stock computer and take complete control of the entire engine with the MS. I have access to plenty of scrap steel around my house that I could build up a test frame with and the electronics are pretty simple on for this truck. The entire electrical system takes up just one page in the Haynes manual. Sounds like the best idea is to gradually phase in the new EMS. Seems easiest part is fuel once I have the money to buy all the parts. Then I'll need to take over the ignition system. The stock ignition is an electrically controlled dizzy and I'm not yet sure if it can be controlled by the MS but I would love to find a way to make a cam sensor and switch to coil near plug ignition.

I know these are all rather ambitious goals but I've got plenty of time to do it.
2010 Dodge RAM 1500 TRX4 - 5.7L, Leveled, 35's
1985 Ford F250 - 300CID I6, working to fix it as soon as I can
TylerFT
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Re: Ford 300 Modifications

Postby billr » Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:09 pm

I would start the other way, get MS controlling the spark first. There is less to provide/install for the spark, and you can get good reliable sync established before adding the fuel stuff. For spark, using the dizzy and a single coil, the only thing you need beyond an MS3 is a missing-tooth crank wheel (60-2 or 36-1 are most common); and you will need that to do anything at all.
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Re: Ford 300 Modifications

Postby Raymond_B » Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:36 pm

I had a 93 F-150 with a 300 that was EFI. I loved that truck, only issue I ever had was exhaust manifold leaks. Anyway I'd pull all the mechanical parts from a junkyard for an EFI swap. Head/intake, throttle body, sensors, fuel rail, regulator, injectors, etc. Might as well grab the EFI fuel tank, pump, and lines too. I wouldn't bother with the MAF, MS is fine with speed density.
1995 Ford Lightning. Dart based 427 Windsor, Novi 2000, full sequential, E-85, etc. MS3/3X
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Re: Ford 300 Modifications

Postby TylerFT » Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:28 pm

Sorry it's been a while. I'm still really busy with work and school. I also recently found someone I can get a front clip from for my truck which I'll be looking into this summer.

Anyway, will I need a new distributor? My engine has the TFI dizzy. I don't quite know how it works and whether or not it works with the MS.

My end goal is to be running LS style coils so I'd end up needing some sort of cam sensor to do sequential ignition. I've read a lot about the TFI system needing all of its components to function which includes electronically controlled dizzy and carb. So it sounds like I might have to do everything at about the same time and control all of it right away rather than slowly integrating.
2010 Dodge RAM 1500 TRX4 - 5.7L, Leveled, 35's
1985 Ford F250 - 300CID I6, working to fix it as soon as I can
TylerFT
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Location: Michigan

Re: Ford 300 Modifications

Postby Matt Cramer » Mon May 01, 2017 11:30 am

Controlling a TFI distributor is fairly straightforward, but it won't work as a trigger for a distributorless igntion. It is possible to modify it to serve as the cam trigger part of a cam and crank trigger combo, though.
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Re: Ford 300 Modifications

Postby TylerFT » Wed May 03, 2017 11:59 am

Matt Cramer wrote:Controlling a TFI distributor is fairly straightforward, but it won't work as a trigger for a distributorless igntion. It is possible to modify it to serve as the cam trigger part of a cam and crank trigger combo, though.


Sounds like I really need to get the engine in some sort of cradle so that I can get it running and actually get a MS so I can start playing with it. Once I get the EFI stuff going I'd love to find a way to make up cam trigger to make sequential ignition possible. I know there's not too much of a benefit to it but it sounds like something fun to talk about.
2010 Dodge RAM 1500 TRX4 - 5.7L, Leveled, 35's
1985 Ford F250 - 300CID I6, working to fix it as soon as I can
TylerFT
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Location: Michigan

Re: Ford 300 Modifications

Postby billr » Wed May 03, 2017 1:46 pm

It is usually pretty easy to add a CMP sensor to the dizzy, which you are going to probably have to retain part of to drive the oil pump. There may even be an OEM "drop in", if Ford kept dizzys as standardized over the years as Chevy did.
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Re: Ford 300 Modifications

Postby Matt Cramer » Thu May 04, 2017 6:50 am

billr wrote:It is usually pretty easy to add a CMP sensor to the dizzy, which you are going to probably have to retain part of to drive the oil pump. There may even be an OEM "drop in", if Ford kept dizzys as standardized over the years as Chevy did.


Rumor has it that the one tooth trigger out of a mid '90s Jeep 4.0 bolts into the six cylinder TFI distributors. I haven't been able to confirm this.
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Re: Ford 300 Modifications

Postby slow_hemi6 » Thu May 04, 2017 6:05 pm

EF and early AU Australian falcons have a cam sensor in the old distributor position. These are based on the 250ci six. No idea whether the 250 and 300 can use the same distributors though.
Find the Manuals up top under Quick links: Manuals. :RTFM:
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Re: Ford 300 Modifications

Postby Raymond_B » Thu May 11, 2017 7:45 pm

Too bad you're not closer, seems like a good deal and lots of EFI parts.

https://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/pts/6127813429.html
1995 Ford Lightning. Dart based 427 Windsor, Novi 2000, full sequential, E-85, etc. MS3/3X
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