Alternative EDIS-6 coil pack… pics.

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Alternative EDIS-6 coil pack… pics.

Postby BRAAPZ » Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:31 pm

While tromping around the U-pull-it yard, I noted that some of the Chrysler Min-vans and Dodge Intrepids/Eagle Vision, were utilizing a 6 cylinder coil pack similar to the Ford EDIS coil packs but with GM HEI style high tension lugs. The more I thought about this asn the more I searched for NICE wires for the Ford coil packs, the more I realized that finding nice wires for the Ford coil packs is pretty difficult, but if these Chrysler coil packs will work and I can just use a GM HEI style boot , then I could save $$.$$ on wires and have the option of pretty much any wire manufacture I choose, i.e. Magnacor. Coil packs are only $25 at my U-pull-it yard, so if it doesn’t work out for what ever reason, not that big of a loss.
Primary resistance of the Ford coil packs was measured at .7-.9 ohm on my Fluke 87, (no idea why the range other than maybe the connector on the coil pack?). The Chrysler coil pack measured .7 ohms on all three coils, so electrically, it should work.
Also worthy of note is the back side of the Chrysler coil pack is FLAT, which makes mounting it in various locations that much easier than the Ford. When mounting the Ford Coil packs, try utilizing the OE mounting bracket the coil was mounted on in its donor vehicle, this will help tremendously. The Chrysler pack makes it even that much easier.


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Postby erikbuzz » Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:03 pm

Keep us posted. I like the idea. It would be much easier to get decent plug wires. Any four cylinder coil packs you know of? (for use with EDIS-8)

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EDIS 4 and EDIS coil pcaks....

Postby BRAAPZ » Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:06 am

EDIS-4 coil alternatives. From what I understand there is an alternative coil pack for the EDIS-4, the Dodge Neon coil pack are supposed to work with EDIS-4, (that is what gave me the idea to look for the Chrysler 6 cylinder coil packs), and the Neon Coil pack has the plug towers out the side of the coil pack which, for some installations, will allow for a cleaner plug wire routing. Also, the bottom of the Neon coil pack is flat which makes mounting it a bit easier than the EDIS-4 coil packs. The Neon coils should also work on the EDIS-8 system as well.
I just happen to have a Neon Coil pack in my shop that is going on my friends Datsun 510 MSnS-E powered L-20-B four-holer, (his wife’s car. Plan is to get this to work on the Dime first, then his E-30 BMW M-3 might get it’s own MSnS-E…)

I don’t see any reason whey you couldn’t use ANY coil that has dual posts on it for EDIS systems, i.e. 2 of the GM wasted spark coils for a 4 cylinder, 3 for the 6 cylinder, and 4 for the 8 cylinder.

Hmmm.. Why couldn’t someone use and EDIS-8 system for fire Coil On Plug four cylinder? Hmmm..


Any how, here are some pics I just took of that Neon Coil pack next to one of my EDIS-8 coil packs, (same as the EDIS-4).


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Postby GS guy » Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:23 am

How's the retention of the coil wires on the GM style coil packs? EDIS equipping a Subaru - and that Neon coil pack looks near ideal, matching the opposed H-4 cylinder layout. Just wondering how well the coil wires will stay on? I'll have to pop the hood on the family Caravan and see how that one is set-up!

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Postby BraneDeadx » Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:53 pm

thats cool see alterntives to edis coil packs, when useing EDIS on my briggs stratton 3.5 motor . i used a single coil over plug frm a honda, never measured the resistance (probley should checked before useing it) but it worked fine i got that motor to tach out at 7k! !! i never seen a briggs do that before sucker got really hot exhaust was glowing hehehe..... i like idea of useing different pack because ive already melted 3 sets of 40 doller bosch EDIS wires (frm ford escort) becaue dam coil pack is a good distance away from the plugs, and wires are next to the orange glowing manifold :P

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Im hear to take over everyone and there megasquirt, ive been there done that with my own EFI gizzmo's check my site out for more!! :)
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Coil packs and Briggs...

Postby BRAAPZ » Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:58 pm

You might look at the GM LS-1 style coil packs. They are a single high tension lug terminal and may be equivalent in primary resistance to the Ford stuff. If that is true, it should work fine for your Briggs.Heck, for that matter, pretty much y any generic regular coil that has similar primary resistance should work, I'd think...
FWIW, I used to have an Uncle Franks Blue Wazoom. I had it broke in on Uncle Franks dyno. My dyno sheet showed 13.01 HP from a 5 hp Briggs Rototiller engine. It wasn’t stock of course as it ran on Methanol, (high maintenance), had a hot rod carb, Dyno cams rod, Wiseco forged piston, Comp cams dual valve springs, big cam, etc. Man did that little engine make some torque. Driving around the autocross course, the firing pulses would THUMP your chest HARD!!!! Would’ve loved to inject it with MS and AV gas..

The Blue Wazoom as installed on my SOLO-II Kart.

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Yours truly coming across the finish line at opposite lock.. YEE HAAA….

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Postby BraneDeadx » Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:07 pm

ohh yeah ! i can top that off :P hehe check this out!!!

www.motorsportwerke.com/e30turbo/turbo1.avi

www.motorsportwerke.com/e30turbo/efi1.mpg


the avi is in divix so u need the codec and the mpg is normal mpeg...


the turbo motor was my first attempt to EFI and understand what heck it was (i was 19 at time out high school ) i used a parallax basic stamp tp inject the fuel ( very crude way of doing it) i had that motor doing 4 psi of boost!!! even tho there was no load on engine and my rev limiter was kicking in most time u can hear the turbo spooling :P

the second video is something i did in summer, its a 3.5 with my newly designed EFI controller i tried building had a nice interface it was directed towards gokart motors and used the EDIS , worked great just had I2C problems between the controller and interface sorta gave up on it because of my turbo bimmer project ....

top that if yeah can buddy :P
Sean...
Im hear to take over everyone and there megasquirt, ive been there done that with my own EFI gizzmo's check my site out for more!! :)
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Re: EDIS 4 and EDIS coil pcaks....

Postby efahl » Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:12 pm

BRAAPZ wrote:Hmmm.. Why couldn’t someone use and EDIS-8 system for fire Coil On Plug four cylinder? Hmmm..
Paul,

Because it fires every 90 degrees, not every 180... You'd need to put the trigger wheel on the cam to get the four outputs to be at 180 d intervals for a 4-cylinder, and then you'd lose a bunch of timing precision due to the timing drive slop. Dave Hartnell has an I3 running COP using EDIS-6, I don't recall the details, but he might be firing the plugs on the exhaust stroke, too.

Eric
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Re: EDIS 4 and EDIS coil pcaks....

Postby Skiericski » Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:14 pm

BRAAPZ wrote: Hmmm.. Why couldn’t someone use and EDIS-8 system for fire Coil On Plug four cylinder? Hmmm..



Right you are, Eric. Guess we'd need a pair of EDIS2 setups, huh?
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Postby milosch01 » Sun Apr 09, 2006 1:41 pm

I have one of these chrysler coil packs which I bought new. Any idea where I can get the connector for it? I am guessing I will have to go to the junkyard unless one of you or the dealer has it. It looks just like the one in the pictures at the top of this thread.
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Postby BRAAPZ » Sun Apr 09, 2006 3:53 pm

milosch01 wrote:I have one of these chrysler coil packs which I bought new. Any idea where I can get the connector for it? I am guessing I will have to go to the junkyard unless one of you or the dealer has it. It looks just like the one in the pictures at the top of this thread.


Wrecking yard is your best bet.
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Postby milosch01 » Sun Apr 09, 2006 4:45 pm

OK. Any idea on the pinout for that connector? I figured out which one is common, just not sure how to verify which of the other 3 fires which coil. Seems like the car almost starts assuming:

A B

X C

... looking at the connector with the coil terminals above, where X is common (12v).
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Chrysler coil pack pin out...

Postby BRAAPZ » Mon Apr 10, 2006 8:35 pm

Here is the pin out of the Chrysler 6 cylinder coil pack. Wires in the harness are “Green w/brown/red stripe”, the triggers are “Black”, “Red” and “White”. I painted the corresponding trigger wire color on the side of each coil in the pack for a quick visual reference when it comes time to wire it up to the EDIS module. I tested this and one other Chrysler coil on the test bench and they pinned out the same.
Hope this helps

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Postby milosch01 » Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:42 am

Thanks. I can almost see where your wires are in the pic. Can you elaborate on the pinout. Starting with the green wire and moving clockwise, perhaps?
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Postby BRAAPZ » Wed Apr 12, 2006 6:03 pm

If you already have this coil pack and a pig tail for it in hand, then just looking at this picture should be very self explanatory as far as the pint out is concerned. But I’ll elaborate in text form as well for those that are more audible vs kinesthetic and visual.

The plug is square in shape and has only 4 wires. In the picture above, you are looking at the plug side of the coil pack itself. Now take your coil pack and set it down in-front of you on the table, with the high tension terminals facing up. Now orientate the coil pack on the table in such a manner so that the connector plug on the side of the coil pack is facing your belly, (between you and the coil pack). Remember to keep the high tension terminals facing up and the connector plug facing you. Now make sure your pig tail connector is orientated correctly and plugged in. There is a lock tab on one side of the pig tail connector which coincides with the little tab on the coil pack. Now, looking down on the coil pack with the pigtail plugged into your Chrysler 6 cylinder coil pack, lets move clockwise around this 4 wire connector starting with the upper right wire. The upper right wire is the green wire and is the power wire, connects to #8 on the EDIS-6 connector pictured below. Next then would be the lower right wire which is the white wire and it is the trigger for the coil on the right side of the coil pack in this position. The next wire going clockwise, the lower left wire is the black wire and it is the trigger for the middle coil. The upper left wire is the Red wire and it is the trigger wire for the left coil.

Now in regards to hooking this coil pack up to your EDIS-6 module, depending on your particular engines firing order, (most inline 6 cylinder firing orders are 1-5-3-6-2-4. Wasted spark ignition systems pair up the cylinders as follows for this firing order… 1-6 are paired, 2-5 are paired and 3-4 are paired), all you need to know is the EDIS-6 firing order coming out of the module itself. The firing order coming out of the EDIS module (by module pins in the picture below of the EDIS system) is 10-12-11. This info was found on this forum and also confirmed on our EDIS test bench.
Now with the detailed description and picture of the Chrysler coil pack pin out, the EDIS wiring diagram and EDIS coil firing order detailed and pictured below, you should be set.

SO NOW, if you know your particular engines firing order, I have armed you with enough information here to be able to connect an EDIS-6 using a Chrysler coil pack to your 6 cylinder engine and have it wired up correctly the first time.


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Postby z-ya » Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:03 pm

Jut get one at the junkyard, and take the filter cap along with it. I have the Chrysler coil pack working on my EDIS-6 sparled Datsun L28. Summit Racing sells a decent universal HEI wire set that fits the Chrsler coil pack great.

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Postby PSIG » Sat Apr 22, 2006 8:26 am

milosch01 wrote:I have one of these chrysler coil packs which I bought new. Any idea where I can get the connector for it? I am guessing I will have to go to the junkyard unless one of you or the dealer has it. It looks just like the one in the pictures at the top of this thread.
There are at least two different connectors for the 4-cyl type. I picked-up two packs and connectors for a waste-spark V8 project and found they were different when I got home. This is now a good feature for me as the packs are close together and the different plugs keep the firing order correct 8)
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Postby motown menace » Sun May 07, 2006 8:14 pm

Does anyone know the pinout of the 4 cyl neon packs? I picked up a couple today (both connector types) to try out. If you do know, could you also include a picture of which connector you have incase the two types are different.

Thanks

EDIT: I took a few pictures you can save then modify and repost if you want. I also took a picture of a 6 cyl pack and wrote on it to help clarify the pinout. If it's wrong please let me know and i'll change it.

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Re: EDIS 4 and EDIS coil pcaks....

Postby a73camaro » Mon May 29, 2006 8:34 pm

efahl wrote:
BRAAPZ wrote:Hmmm.. Why couldn’t someone use and EDIS-8 system for fire Coil On Plug four cylinder? Hmmm..
Paul,

Because it fires every 90 degrees, not every 180... You'd need to put the trigger wheel on the cam to get the four outputs to be at 180 d intervals for a 4-cylinder, and then you'd lose a bunch of timing precision due to the timing drive slop. Dave Hartnell has an I3 running COP using EDIS-6, I don't recall the details, but he might be firing the plugs on the exhaust stroke, too.

Eric


Since EDIS-4 fires two coils at once (two coils in series on the secondary), couldn't one fire two COP's on the primary side at once?

Example - firing order 1-4-3-2

So fire coil 1 and 3, then 4 - 2....???
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Postby MegaScott » Mon May 29, 2006 8:53 pm

Edis only fires one coil at a time, the EDIS 4 coil packs have 4 towers but only 2 coils. One plug fires on the low side of the secondary, the other plug fires on the high side of the secondary, only one coil.

(The picture below is a reprisentation of 1/2 of a EDIS 4 coil pack.)

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