Designing a new 36-1 Trigger Wheel, Min & Max Sizes

Mad Professor · Post by **Mad Professor** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 11:55 am

Hi All.

I am trying to design a new 36-1 Trigger Wheel for my car, as none of the other I have got my hands on so far will fit.

What I need to know is there a min or max tooth height needed?

And same again for the ring size?

So far I have a design of 130mm ring and 4mm teeth.

Thanks for your time.

MegaScott · Post by **MegaScott** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:05 pm

That looks about right. The Explorer EDIS balancer I just measured as ~99mm with equal teeth width as compared to the valleys. The teeth depth is roughly the same as the width.

BraneDeadx · Post by **BraneDeadx** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:13 pm

something i was thinking at time of deisnging my edis wheels , came from when i test drove a new mustang v6... it had a 36-1 wheel on crank ( not sure if its edis or exact number of teeth but one was sure missing) this thing had be no bigger then 2" diamter almost looked like a timing belt pully.... i guess if u had the correct VR sensor to give good output (theres bunch out there) it probley work no problem.... my other idea was to use optics and have aLED with a infread transistor (have the entire thing closed off from light) this would give u a good single plus size wouldnt matter could be as small as a mouse tracking IR wheel

...

dont know my two cents, trying kill some work time

Sean...

Mad Professor · Post by **Mad Professor** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 6:27 am

I am still changing the design as I go, I now have come up with this.

I think I am going to keep with this style of design, but just change a few little things here and there.

Now I need to know what type(s) of metal can I use for this?

Thanks for your time.

cng1 · Post by **cng1** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 6:47 am

Mild steel is what you want. Yes you can use a semi-stainless such as nirosta but you're best off with mild and if necessary get it zinc-plated.

efahl · Post by **efahl** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 6:59 am

Mad Professor wrote:Now I need to know what type(s) of metal can I use for this?

The tooth ring needs to be ferrous, but you could make it a 2-piece if you wanted with, say, an aluminum hub and a steel "ring gear" around the outside. That might have some benefits, too, since you could spin the trigger wheel and play with optimal orientation of the missing tooth.

Eric

BRAAPZ · Post by **BRAAPZ** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:04 pm

efahl wrote:The tooth ring needs to be ferrous, but you could make it a 2-piece if you wanted with, say, an aluminum hub and a steel "ring gear" around the outside. .....
Eric

Couldn’t you make the wheel out of aluminum and just embed 35 steel slugs around the perimeter? The entire wheel could be flush. I would think you could even just thread in bolts and then chuck the wheel in a lathe and turn down the heads till they were gone.
The teeth don’t have to be linked to each other ferriaticly speaking, (is that even a word?) do they, i.e. all on one ring?

MegaScott · Post by **MegaScott** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:29 pm

BRAAPZ wrote:
efahl wrote:The tooth ring needs to be ferrous, but you could make it a 2-piece if you wanted with, say, an aluminum hub and a steel "ring gear" around the outside. .....
Eric

Couldn’t you make the wheel out of aluminum and just embed 35 steel slugs around the perimeter? The entire wheel could be flush. I would think you could even just thread in bolts and then chuck the wheel in a lathe and turn down the heads till they were gone.
The teeth don’t have to be linked to each other ferriaticly speaking, (is that even a word?) do they, i.e. all on one ring?

The aluminum flywheels made for use on Zetec Fords have 35 small steel dowls pressed into the the back of the flywheel, so if that setup works, the wheel you described should work as well.

78Spit1500Fed · Post by **78Spit1500Fed** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 8:26 am

BRAAPZ wrote:The teeth don’t have to be linked to each other ferriaticly speaking, (is that even a word?) do they, i.e. all on one ring?

It's a word now! (We'll add that one to the list... Eric has quite a few submissions there... we like to make up words around here!)

A metal's ferric content is determined by it's composition, not is conductive state... it's just how much Iron is in the alloy.

A hunk of iron is just as "ferric" if it's floating out in space, or if it's embedded in a hunk of aluminium. A VR sensor will be able to detect it's presence equaly as well in either situation.

-Brian

Mad Professor · Post by **Mad Professor** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:24 am

What do you think I should use?

4mm Teeth

6mm Teeth

scirturbo · Post by **scirturbo** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:28 am

Just for comparison here's my wheel. It's been on my vw g60 for more then a year now and it works flawless. Dimensions are not critical. I even run my exp. engine with a hacked up v-pulley without a problem.

SFC

allen22 · Post by **allen22** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 11:03 am

I'm wondering why I couldn't just have my crank pulley cut w/ the 36-1 pattern out of its outer rib? Would there be any problems with that?

allen

BRAAPZ · Post by **BRAAPZ** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 3:06 pm

I’ve seen somewhere on this forum where some did notch their V-belt pulley, (I think it was with a hand file even), with 36-1 and I remember it running fine for them. I think it was a GM V-8, Pontiac or Chevy…
I’ve searched but couldn’t find that picture of that set up.

scirturbo · Post by **scirturbo** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 2:59 am

I actually tested that and it worked great. Can take pictures of it.....

SFC

----- Original Message -----
From: allen22 (turbosforsale@hotmail.com)
To: megasquirt-msedis@msefi.com (megasquirt-msedis@msefi.com)
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 7:03 PM
Subject: Designing a new 36-1 Trigger Wheel, Min & Max Sizes

I'm wondering why I couldn't just have my crank pulley cut w/ the 36-1 pattern out of its outer rib? Would there be any problems with that?

allen

1995 Nissan 240SX/VQ35DE/6 Speed/MSII

This post is at: http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?p=96873#96873

Posted by email.

allen22 · Post by **allen22** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 7:43 am

I'd like to see that if you get a chance.

Thanks,
allen

scirturbo · Post by **scirturbo** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:33 am

here you go....

Mad Professor · Post by **Mad Professor** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:40 am

Mad Professor · Post by **Mad Professor** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:12 pm

I have found a firm here in the UK that can laser cut my design in 10mm think mild-steel.

Thay are going to charge me £38.00 ($67 Aprox).

All I need to do is give them the go ahead.

So all I have to ask now is should my design work?

kalvinlk · Post by **kalvinlk** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:30 pm

scirturbo: I am designing a 36-1 wheel for my 16v scirocco, and am considering several mounting styles. My goal is bolt on, no welding required as this opens up the possiblity for VW conversions with no welder or easy access to welding. How do you have yours mounted to the pulley, considering the pulley that drives the waterpump is mounted on top of the crank pulley? I am not sure if it's a good idea to stack this wheel on top of the waterpump drive pulley, because that will leave a gap between the back of the wheel and the surface of the pulley, meaning the pulley will only be "clamped" on by the wheel. Maybe two of the four bolts attached to the pulley and the other two to the trigger wheel? Also, I should be able to powdercoat this wheel without any problems, correct? I can't think of a reason that would affect the VR sensor.

I designed a couple brackets for my dad's work, and as payment I get some lasercutting for free, so I need to get this designed to go into the batch he is having done this week.

Here is the wheel; I am thinking about shrinking it down slightly:

scirturbo · Post by **scirturbo** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 7:26 am

I never seen the waterpump pulley mounted on top of the crank. Only the pulley for the powersteering pump. Is this a special modification?

Here's a picture of my wheel/sensor setup on the G60. Wheel is welded on the back of the pulley with 4 stich welds.

SFC