just upgraded to 029q2, runs like crap/stalls afterWU(FIXED)

McAdam · Post by **McAdam** » Tue May 16, 2006 11:59 am

I've got a v3.0 ms1 running 029q2 with coil control through the vb921 to the coil.

It will start up just fine and run on warmup, but once it gets warmed up, it starts to buck and the RPM's go up and down wildly. It also goes SUPER lean, like off the chart. I tried richening up the idle VE bins, no luck.

I am using the EXACT same set-up as I used when I was running 029k. it ran, but not well. it had a slight rich hiccup, but it started up and idled just fine, except for the occasional hiccup.

I know the 029q2 isa supposed to run leaner and you have to richen up your VE's, but I DOUBLED the VE's at idle and it did the exact same thing. According to megatune, the pulswidth is staying the same when it does this... which is doubly confusing.

anyway, here is my datalog from start up to stall out, along with my msq.

McAdam · Post by **McAdam** » Tue May 16, 2006 12:00 pm

and here is my .msq

McAdam · Post by **McAdam** » Tue May 16, 2006 4:13 pm

and I just noticed something else, the duty cycle on my 2nd bank of injectors is roughly 1,000,000% at idle.

davezed · Post by **davezed** » Wed May 17, 2006 3:42 am

Doesn't sound like the fully reason but James stated a little while back that q2 code would make your car run 5-10% (I think) leaner, this was due to incorrect tables (coolant etc) being used. Not sure if that helps?

Cheers
DaveZZ

cybo · Post by **cybo** » Wed May 17, 2006 8:07 am

You have clt temp 184 and mat temp 123. Are those F? Are those right? (i´m celcius guy). And you have mat value 126-> 121. It sholud rice up when engine warms and air warms up a bit.

You have o2 voltage 0-> 0,2v what mean that your engine is running too lean (or you have broken o2 sensor). It should be ~0,8v in warmup.

Gammae is off, you should turn it on (advanced> fuel table selec> gammae on).

Edit: Turn gammae first on before trying change ase 100% more.
I don´t know it that it nessessary at all.

You have ase 100% -> 120% it should be 0% -> 20%. I prefer to use sec insted of cycles, 20sec is ok. If could be that cycles runs out to soo when engine is cold and runs higher rpm than warm engine; engine warms up allways same time.

And you should make open loop mode whit nb sensor.

Whit 6 injections per engine cycle it makes also opening time *6. If you have any problems whith duty cycle in full thottle you can try to reduce it 2 (makes pw 0,4ms more if needed).

Acc richment is off (time 0,0sec). Try use map and rpm based acc. Allso your values is funny.

I make some changes, posted it back. Hope it helps. Check those engine and air temps and finetune.

J-M

Sorry typos, bad english, i´m in a hurry.

McAdam · Post by **McAdam** » Wed May 17, 2006 8:50 am

thank you very much, cybo! I will make those changes and see if I can get this thing running!

Yes, the temps are in degrees F.

I will look into replacing my 02 sensor, but it seemed to be working fine when I was running 029k code. That code also had its problems. nothing like this tho.

I am still pretty new to this, despite my join date of june 2004. I just built my MS 3.0 last month and installed it on my car last week!

again, thanks for the help!

McAdam · Post by **McAdam** » Wed May 17, 2006 9:26 am

well, I just tryed the .msq that Cybo gave me (AFTER I changed the "C" to "F") and it does the EXACT same thing. Im really stuck here guys...

Im pretty sure its a software problem, or to be more precise, a setting problem. Its not hardware or sensors Im pretty sure because it ran (with a slight hiccup) just fine with the earlier version of the code.

cybo · Post by **cybo** » Wed May 17, 2006 9:55 am

McAdam wrote:well, I just tryed the .msq that Cybo gave me (AFTER I changed the "C" to "F") and it does the EXACT same thing. Im really stuck here guys...

Im pretty sure its a software problem, or to be more precise, a setting problem. Its not hardware or sensors Im pretty sure because it ran (with a slight hiccup) just fine with the earlier version of the code.

Try to use easyterm. Make clt and iat temp pins with your sensor, if you are using gm sensor you can find those values file-> gmdefaults.
Make new s.19 file by choosing "custom" and hit write button. Find 29q2 s.19 file and "open it."

Now you have s.19mod file. Rename original s.19 file to something else and allso rename that new s.19-mod file to s.19
Now you can use download.exe and you don´t have to put boot jumper on.

Then copy air, mat and term inc file in easy term folder to megasquirt/car1/mtcfg.

Allso remember to use copyini to copy extra to megatune.

Try if that helps.

I edited my prev post. There could be gammae problem in 29 code.
See this:http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=18160&start=50

TT350chevelle · Post by **TT350chevelle** » Wed May 17, 2006 9:57 am

What does your fuel pressure do during this change?
I can't see anything wrong with your msq or datalog, the injector PW doesn't change but the engine leans out so I would verify correct fuel supply first.

Brad J.

cybo · Post by **cybo** » Wed May 17, 2006 10:08 am

TT350chevelle wrote:What does your fuel pressure do during this change?
I can't see anything wrong with your msq or datalog, the injector PW doesn't change but the engine leans out so I would verify correct fuel supply first.

Brad J.

If O2 voltage is 0,00v with warm nb sensor you shold use diesel fuel ;)

McAdam · Post by **McAdam** » Wed May 17, 2006 10:20 am

Ill try all of that, but I dont think its a sensor issue. I am using a GM IAT sensor and a Nissan/bosch coolant sensor (which is only off from a GM sensor by about 10 degrees). All the values seem correct in MegaTune when I am watching the gauges. none are completely out of whack.

It just seems odd that as soon as it gets off of its ASE cycle it dies. I've tried richening the idle bins up to almost double what they were before, and it doesnt seem to have an affect.

cybo · Post by **cybo** » Wed May 17, 2006 10:48 am

McAdam wrote:Ill try all of that, but I dont think its a sensor issue. I am using a GM IAT sensor and a Nissan/bosch coolant sensor (which is only off from a GM sensor by about 10 degrees). All the values seem correct in MegaTune when I am watching the gauges. none are completely out of whack.

It just seems odd that as soon as it gets off of its ASE cycle it dies. I've tried richening the idle bins up to almost double what they were before, and it doesnt seem to have an affect.

Ok. Download that msq. file that i sent and see what happens.
It it dies again can you post new log file so i can see where that gammae has any affect at all. Allso try to make ase pins same base that warm up pins (both use same 100% start value).

McAdam · Post by **McAdam** » Wed May 17, 2006 12:12 pm

alright, ran your modified msq. all I did was to change a few things, temperature related. its still doing the same thing. oh, I changed the ASE time to 40 seconds for the sake of getting a good graph.

Its really odd. I can hold the throttle open and hold the RPM's to like, 2000 and it runs fine. good AFR's, everything.

anyway, here is my datalog and here is how I modified your msq, so you can make sure I didnt change anything too drastic.

Keithg · Post by **Keithg** » Wed May 17, 2006 5:17 pm

this is the same issue I have been struggling with. With 025 through 027, it was a rock. Great startup at all temps and idled right after. I have chased this for a month or so and it just will not start right. it catches every time right off, then engine speed drops off and it dies every time.

I sure hope it is some code issue and not that I cannot figure out the tuning. Grrr. Look at my posted log and see if it is similar. I do not nkow exactly what you are looking for.

http://www.wideopenwest.com/~kgrider/sa ... o_warm.xls

KeithG

Keithg · Post by **Keithg** » Thu May 18, 2006 6:23 am

Latest log:

http://www.wideopenwest.com/~kgrider/saab/datalog200605180649.xls

Latest MSQ:

http://www.wideopenwest.com/~kgrider/saab/megasquirt.msq

43592.5 seconds it dies. I restart and it gets through. I looked at Gammae and did not see anything. It just seems to have tremendous difficulty in ASE. I have it out to 45sec at this point which is way too long. If anyone sees anything in this log, please let us know. If anyone has any suggestions as to how I may tune this to be able to run properly through ASE, also chime in. Also, tip in during ASE will cause it to die as well. I have tweaked the warmup accel values on the accel wizard page and it still wants to lean out and die if I do not modulate the throttle.

Another question on warmup, though. I have noticed a distinct wierdness and it may have always been there but I am definitely noticing it. If I adjust the warmup bin so that idle is reasonable (near stoich so that it does not stumble) it is quite rich at part throttle and up.

Thoughts, Comments?

KeithG

Posted by email.

cybo · Post by **cybo** » Thu May 18, 2006 7:12 am

McAdam wrote:alright, ran your modified msq. all I did was to change a few things, temperature related. its still doing the same thing. oh, I changed the ASE time to 40 seconds for the sake of getting a good graph.

Its really odd. I can hold the throttle open and hold the RPM's to like, 2000 and it runs fine. good AFR's, everything.

anyway, here is my datalog and here is how I modified your msq, so you can make sure I didnt change anything too drastic.

You don´t have gammae problem (you are using ase values over 100% what could be the answer). Engine runs good until ase stops and engine stalls = it´s too lean. Your air temp is 124f wich is 55c. That is too hot. Relocate your iat sensor somewhere "cold" spot in air piping and use some sensitive sensor (if needed). It should show allmost same temp as your outside temp is.

Or: you can use iat correction. I put it on and type "ballpart" values, cant say if that is ok or not; depends on your engine.

Now your 02 sensor seems to be working, use hego correction all the time (not open loop). It correct little rougness on your engine. But be sure that voltage in over 400mv but under 800mv i mean that be sure that sensor is working propely while cruising; full throttle it should be 0,9- 0.95v.

J-M

cybo · Post by **cybo** » Thu May 18, 2006 7:37 am

Keithg wrote:Latest log:

http://www.wideopenwest.com/~kgrider/saab/datalog200605180649.xls

Latest MSQ:

http://www.wideopenwest.com/~kgrider/saab/megasquirt.msq

43592.5 seconds it dies. I restart and it gets through. I looked at Gammae and did not see anything. It just seems to have tremendous difficulty in ASE. I have it out to 45sec at this point which is way too long. If anyone sees anything in this log, please let us know. If anyone has any suggestions as to how I may tune this to be able to run properly through ASE, also chime in. Also, tip in during ASE will cause it to die as well. I have tweaked the warmup accel values on the accel wizard page and it still wants to lean out and die if I do not modulate the throttle.

Another question on warmup, though. I have noticed a distinct wierdness and it may have always been there but I am definitely noticing it. If I adjust the warmup bin so that idle is reasonable (near stoich so that it does not stumble) it is quite rich at part throttle and up.

Thoughts, Comments?

KeithG

Posted by email.

You don´t have gammae problem but i think your engine is too lean after starup. Most stock engines keep pw very high after starup few seconds.
Your pw is 8ms in starup put drops 4ms right away. It should drop slowly in that 4ms = you need more ase.

4ms + warm up 150% = 6ms. +ase 130% = 7.8ms You see.

Make ase values over 100% and see what hapens. Allso your gammae is 157% in startup. Aim higher, 200% (it rises when you rise ase.)

Made some changes in your msq file. See what happens.

J-M

McAdam · Post by **McAdam** » Thu May 18, 2006 8:48 am

Sorry, I should have told you that I am in Phoenix, AZ right now and 124 degrees is probably only about 20 degrees over the ambient temperature. I would have to put the sensor outside of the engine bay for it to read any lower! HA ha!

I have increased the idle VE bins slowly to the point of doubling them in an attempt to get it to idle, and it acts the exact same way. meaning that as soon as it comes off of its ASE cycle, it goes lean, sputters out and dies.

Im really contemplating going with the 024s9 code, as my friend has been running it on his car for about a year now, and it runs just fine and gets 29mpg at an 85mph cruise!

Post by **jsmcortina** » Thu May 18, 2006 8:56 am

If 024s9 works and 029q2 doesn't I need to see the MSQs and compare them side by side.

My car is running fine on 029.

James

McAdam · Post by **McAdam** » Thu May 18, 2006 9:32 am

Im not running o24s9 YET, however, I do have an msq for 029k that idled and ran fine aside from a rich hiccup, but no where near the problems I am experienceing with the 029q2 code.

this problem is really odd. If I keep it above the first 2 bins on the RPM scale, it will run fine. very high RPM (1600+) , but it will run fine according to all sensors and its smooth.

here is my 029k .msq

Megasquirt Support Forum (MSEXTRA)

just upgraded to 029q2, runs like crap/stalls afterWU(FIXED)

just upgraded to 029q2, runs like crap/stalls afterWU(FIXED)

just upgraded to 029q2, runs like crap/stalls after warmup.

Re: just upgraded to 029q2, runs like crap/stalls after warm