In higher rpm car stutters

ASTB · Post by **ASTB** » Fri May 19, 2006 10:54 am

Hi,

i have a problem with my car.

Ich use MSnS-E´n Edis, V3 Board and 029q2 Software on my Ford Fiesta RS Turbo.

When i drive in higher rpm, 4000 and higher the engine stutters sometimes.

I testet differnt AFR and spark Settings nothing happend.

With the original ECU and the same loom, the car runs perfect.

On time 140.478 in the log, you see what i mean....

I don´t now, what it can be.
I hope you have a idea......

kind regards

ASTB

ASTB · Post by **ASTB** » Tue May 23, 2006 1:31 am

Hi,

no idea???

Can it be, that i have not enough or bad ground?

I see, that my original Ford EEC-IV ECU gets ground over the case.
Is it normal?

kind regards

ASTB

MegaScott · Post by **MegaScott** » Tue May 23, 2006 2:44 am

ASTB,

Welcome.

Can you post a list of your connections you have from the Megasquirt, and to which pins on the EEC connector. I can only theorize as to what the problem could be.

Thanks!

ASTB · Post by **ASTB** » Tue May 23, 2006 8:49 am

Hi,

MS - EECIV Connector - Description
7 - 40 Ground
8 - 40 Ground
9 - 60 Ground
10 - 60 Ground
11 - 16 Ground
19 - 16 Ground
20 - 25 IAT
21 - 7 Coolant Temp Sensor
22 - 47 TPS
23 - 44 ego
24 - 56 EDIS PIP
26 - 26 5V ref
28 - 37 and 57
30 - 21 IDLE
32 - 58 INJ 1
33 - 58 INJ 1
34 - 59 INJ 2
35 - 59 INJ 2
36 - 36 EDIS SAW
37 - 22 12V+

kind regards

ASTB

MegaScott · Post by **MegaScott** » Tue May 23, 2006 4:08 pm

huh.....OK,

You need to connect the EEC pin 46 SIG-RTN to a Megasquirt ground.

Also Pin 22 is the fuel pump not +12V but that's just a typo.

That stuff is not really any kind of show stopper, although your SIG return could be getting noise at high revs.

Possibly a configuration problem?

Did you do the EDIS mods as called out on the MSnS-Extra page, or the Megamanual?

Please send your .MSQ and maybe a datalog next for further evaluation.

Thanks!!

ASTB · Post by **ASTB** » Wed May 24, 2006 1:03 am

Hi,

of course, EEC Pin 46 is on ground,
EEC Pin 22 is fuel pump.

MSQ and Datalog is in my first post.

At the moment, i change the cylinder head.
On weekend the car is ready.
Then i check the ground and the
12+ to ecu.

kind regards

ASTB

MegaScott · Post by **MegaScott** » Wed May 24, 2006 1:00 pm

I looked at your .msq most everything looks fine, except you have no accel enrichments(AE), I recommend you turn on the new RPM based accel enrichment. Simply because you need more AE at lower RPM than at higher RPM.

ASTB · Post by **ASTB** » Thu May 25, 2006 12:30 pm

Hi,

yes i know.
I find it easier to set up the VE table without accel enrichments.
When VE is ok, i start with accel enrichments.

kind regards

ASTB

Phil Waters · Post by **Phil Waters** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:34 am

Hi ASTB ,

Did you ever figure this problem out?
It sounds very similar to a problem I am having with a 2.0lt Zetec in my Caterham. When I get to about 4250rpm I get a misfire which I can drive through. I then get repeat misfires every 500rpm or so. I am running MS1 with MSnS-E vs 029q2.

Below 4k rpm it runs perfectly, nice and smooth. I have triple checked all my grounds, etc.

ASTB · Post by **ASTB** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 6:57 am

Hi,

- now i checked all my Grounds and 12+ = Its all ok, but same problem
- changed the complete MegaSquirt = Same Problem
- with same loom and original ecu = no problem

I don´t know what it can be?
Have anybody a idea?

I´ve make a new log, where you can see my problem better.

See my log on time 313.146 to 315.492.

In low rpm the car run fine, then it stutters and
suddenly in higher rpm it runs good.

kind regards

ASTB

cossie_storm · Post by **cossie_storm** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:06 pm

i have almost the same problem
on what car do you have this?

aren't you running a bit leen? is it a wide band?

rpm map O2
313.146 103 53 112 100 2.118 60.6

Leistung Elektronik · Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:29 pm

I have a similar problem. I have tried everything...
Did you hace a GOOD ground on the dis coils, all bolts must be grunded. I will try this on weekend

Good luck

ASTB · Post by **ASTB** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:36 pm

cossie_storm wrote:i have almost the same problem
on what car do you have this?

I use it on a Ford Fiesta RS Turbo. The original ECU use EDIS,too.

cossie_storm wrote: aren't you running a bit leen? is it a wide band?

For only 10-20kpa boost its ok. When boost go higher, i make it richer.
I tested different afr settings but it stutters always.

Leistung Elektronik wrote:I have a similar problem. I have tried everything...
Did you hace a GOOD ground on the dis coils, all bolts must be grunded. I will try this on weekend
Good luck

Yes, ground its ok. The original ECU use the EDIS with same loom and components,too.
And with original ECU, its runs good.

kind regards

ASTB

Phil Waters · Post by **Phil Waters** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:45 pm

How is the MS grounded compared with the EDIS? Could there be an earth loop - try taking the ECU earth back to the EDIS (pin 9 I think)

Saint · Post by **Saint** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:09 pm

I has very similar problem , and i fight with it one year.
I try use lm1815 but at verry high rpms about 5000-6000 car do misfires,
I change capacitor in peak detector , try add resistor 390 ohm , and have strange effects.
i try v3 circuit but only work to 1200-1500 rpm , and engine stoped.
I try use lm2904 and build conditioner from magneti marelli ecu , and it work perfect only to 4000-5000 , and do misfire.

When i buy (last solution) LM9011 - it work perfect - i use application circuit from pdf and work perfect to 8000-8500 rpm.

Try to use this chip - it designed special for electronic ignition.
Maybe it help somebody.

Sorry for my English.

amd is the best · Post by **amd is the best** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 5:25 pm

Does it cut out at that RPM under load (in boost) or just at that RPM? If it does under load/boost, the boost may be "blowing" your spark out. You may want to gap your plugs smaller or even one step colder. Also, I'm not sure if this is an option with EDIS, but you could increase the dwell time so the coils charge a little longer, creating a stronger spark. Hope this helps, Nick

ASTB · Post by **ASTB** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:36 am

Hi,

Saint wrote:I has very similar problem , and i fight with it one year.
I try use lm1815 but at verry high rpms about 5000-6000 car do misfires,
I change capacitor in peak detector , try add resistor 390 ohm , and have strange effects.
i try v3 circuit but only work to 1200-1500 rpm , and engine stoped.
I try use lm2904 and build conditioner from magneti marelli ecu , and it work perfect only to 4000-5000 , and do misfire.

When i buy (last solution) LM9011 - it work perfect - i use application circuit from pdf and work perfect to 8000-8500 rpm.

Try to use this chip - it designed special for electronic ignition.
Maybe it help somebody.

Sorry for my English.

But strangely when i go over 6000rpm it runs perfect.

amd is the best wrote:Does it cut out at that RPM under load (in boost) or just at that RPM? If it does under load/boost, the boost may be "blowing" your spark out. You may want to gap your plugs smaller or even one step colder. Also, I'm not sure if this is an option with EDIS, but you could increase the dwell time so the coils charge a little longer, creating a stronger spark. Hope this helps, Nick

With edis, you can´t change the dwell time.
I tested different sparks. The same problem.

kind regards

ASTB

McNugget · Post by **McNugget** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 8:58 am

Hi ASTB,

as you told me, you have some problems with your MS. I took a look through your log-file and found some things I think would need some explanations:

At first I noticed, that your engine runs too lean for a full throttle situation. Between the time 13.4 to 15.5 seconds at MAP 110 you run around 14.1 to 13.7. 13.7 may work, I think, but 14.1 is too lean for a boosted engine.
You should add more fuel to get downto 13.2 - 12.8 or something like that.

Second (I'm not really sure about this): At which ports do your drive your injectors? I noticed that porta toggles between the values 33 ant 225. But these should only be two of your injectors.
The other port which would fit seems to be portd. This port fills the holes between the injections of porta but has some strange holes which would explain the problem. Every other port, portb and portc, does something strange.

So please check if your injectors are running at the correct port.
Then please rise the amount of fuel you inject.
The spark angle should be ok. The engine should run smooth with 24 degree at full throttle.

The AE should not matter in this case, but I think its much better to turn it on with some testing values instead of leaving it off. Everthing runs way better then.

This may help,
Timo

ASTB · Post by **ASTB** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 9:43 am

Hi,

i tested differend AFR settings but the same problem.
Now i drive with AE.

What does it mean with the ports. I think the ports are ok.

kind regards

ASTB

McNugget · Post by **McNugget** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 10:11 am

Well its just an idea. I think MSv3 has four ports. MSv2.2 has just two.
I think you have to use port a and b for your injector pairs 1+2 and 3+4.
If you use port a and d instead, some strange behavior may appear. But thats just an idea, maybe I'm walking "on the woodway"