MS1 Pwm Idle does not work.

Masi_K · Post by **Masi_K** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:08 am

When power on, valve opens fully for that 2 seconds. Then nothing happends. After changin tps treshold a bit higher than closed position, engine starts to accel.
With these settings i got it settle, but I dont think it does work. Target rpm, does not affect at all(or should it when engine is warm).
Valve is basic Bosch 2 pin model form alfa romeo and without DC it is little open.
Board isn't V2.2.

Settings must be wrong or something ?

Keithg · Post by **Keithg** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:21 pm

Your minDC is greater than your crankDC. The code is confused and does not know what to do.

WIth idle regulated in open loop mode, and idle regulated near desired idle speed when warm, what is the duty cycle? Lets assume it is 40%. Your crankDC should be greater than that to allow it to start (55?). Your minDC should be lower, maybe 36. It is helpful to have an idleDC gage on your MT dashboard to assist in tuning this. If the idle speed is greater than desired and you are resting on your minDC value, decrease this value.

KeithG

Posted by email.

Masi_K · Post by **Masi_K** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:54 pm

Thanks, trying ->

EDIT: Idle Dutycycle before start using this option was around 4.0. If you meant this.

PS: AH, of course you don't meant it

Masi_K · Post by **Masi_K** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 5:45 am

Didn't help. IdleDC gauge raises slowly towards 100 and rpm stays low and out of control. Must be some issue at the board

Keithg · Post by **Keithg** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 7:40 am

sounds like PWMidle is trying to regulate, but the valve is not listening. Take a peek at the leads at teh valve with a scope to see if it is getting a signal and if you have enough current to pull it open.

KeithG

Posted by email.

ptegler · Post by **ptegler** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:14 am

BTDT...check the valve style you have for a doide already
in the valve body. Many don't, but some style of the
Bosch/ford valves DO have a doide in the valve assembly
itself. I cooked one by having the voltages reveresed to
the terminals. Once the doide fried... it would constantly
blow the fuse I had on that circuit. I kept fighting with
the settings only to find the valve was fine, but it was
the electronics of the valve that were bad. A new valve,
and a wire swapped, and it works now. (although I've yet
to smooth out he hunting on closed loop so its just
warm-up right now)

ptegler

On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 05:45:27 -0700
"Masi_K" <saaketti@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Didn't help. IdleDC gauge raises slowly towards 100 and
>rpm stays low. Must be some issue at the board :(Volvo
>244 gle, b19e msns-extra and fuel only.
> _________________________________________________________
> This post is at:
> http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?p=126809#126809

Paul Tegler
ptegler@cablespeed.com
Posted by email.

Masi_K · Post by **Masi_K** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 2:17 pm

Before I installed the valve, I tested it with 12V and both polarity. No difference.

It opens fully when priming fuelpumps, then nothing.

Masi_K · Post by **Masi_K** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:03 am

Maybe it's tries to work when engine is cold. Engine accels by itself until it is warm.

Masi_K · Post by **Masi_K** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:54 am

Bigger DC values seems to work. But then it uses only cranking and closed dc. When cranking DC is 120, minimum 80, closed 70. With these values software seems to use 120 and 70 only. Why ? Other settings are just like in those pictures. Except lower temp, that is -15'C

Keithg · Post by **Keithg** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 5:41 am

the oine way would be if the tps adc is not correct. make sure the tps threshold is actually above where the adc is at idle. closedc is the value it goes to when you are driving along or in an overrev situation (throttle on idle stop but revs > threshold)

keithg
Posted by email.

Masi_K · Post by **Masi_K** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:40 am

I put tps setting two steps higher than it is closed position. Now it corrects idle higher when it drops below 1000 rpm. Still it regulates too much at the time and time between corrections is too long. As I'm writing this I'm trying littlebit different values.

In this case I was pulling rpm down with 1st gear and slipping clutch against brakes.

Keithg · Post by **Keithg** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:02 am

Masi,

Try increasing your delay to 255. It does not have enough time to settle out. Another suggestion would be to increase your slow recovery time. I use 40 and that seems to work reasonable for my car. Also, the deadband could be set as the same value.

KeithG

Posted by email.

Masi_K · Post by **Masi_K** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:03 am

I'll try those. BTW I use IRLZ 34 fet to drive the valve. Does this change anything ?

EDIT: Delay, where ?

Closure speed ??

Masi_K · Post by **Masi_K** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 2:44 am

This is with closure speed 255 and slow recovery 40. Just when idle is where t should be, way too much dc is added. Minimum (88 ) dc is about right at 900rpm. I'm --||--- this close to lose my nerves with this.

These are my present idle settings:

Keithg · Post by **Keithg** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:27 am

Masi,

You are almost there... It still does not settle out. Notice that it starts to ramp down from 94 and the next peak is 96 (idleDC). It records the last idleDC as 94 and adds 2 to it (your dashpot setting is 2). It is not closing in idle speed fast enough to allow it to settle out in 2.55 seconds. Decrease your deadband to 40 rpm and your lower limit to 40 rpm as well. I have my slow recovery time set at 40 to 50 and my fast recovery time set at 5 to 10.

Also, I think your closeDC needs to be closer to 25 and your minDC should be more like 38. This is with idle valve frequency block set at 100.

I can get a regulated idle with 100 in this block, but it is still a bit lumpy, so I set it to 200 and doubled all the DC values accordingly. I'd keep it at 100 for now, and do this later after you get it to regulate.

KeithG

Masi_K · Post by **Masi_K** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 5:00 am

I tried deadband 40, slow recovery rpm 40 and slow recovery time 40. Now it is better direction, but not good at all. It ramps down untill 88dc and then suddenly back to 94. Back to 88 and then dashpot adder to 96. Closure speed is now 100. I tried lower mindc values such as 40 trough 60. With these there is no idle at all. Valve seems to be closed with those values. Zero dc it is slilghtly open. I'm outta ideas.

keithmac · Post by **keithmac** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 5:58 am

Have you got an adjustable throttle stop screw on the throttle body? You may want to adjust this so the IdleValve is open less (50% DC at normal tickover?), this may give the valve more room to work as 90% dc may be on the edge of it`s acuracy? Mine runs a maximum real dc of just over 50%.

Masi_K · Post by **Masi_K** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:35 am

Nowdays car seems to have an ground potential difference or something like that. I'll get back to this after it is fixed. Wideband lambda signal is crazy at megatune. Both devices are ok. Cable is too...

Edit: Back in business..

Masi_K · Post by **Masi_K** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:13 am

Is there any way to turn the valve without running engine ? Then I can take correct dc values and see if the valve is working good etc.

superchargingmachine · Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:43 pm

I have been fighting my Ford 2-wire valve all day.

Several tines I have had it close but then just a small adjustment seems to make it go crazy.
Right now it slowly counts down from over 100% to just about the correct RPM and then jumps right back to over 100% and repeat. I brought up my settings from earlier in the day that had been close, idle wandering maybe +/- 150RPM but now they don't work at all WTF????

I have an old computer so I can't easily do screen captures, so I will just list my setting below.

Freq=100
Crank=35
Min=20
Closed=15

Fast Idle Temp=20
Min Temp=70
Fast idle spd=1200
Slow idle spd=900

TPS=40
Idle activation=500
Dashpot settle=10
Dashpot add=3(I have set this to zero when just trying to tune recovery speeds but it doesn't help the current problem)

Deadband=40
Upper Limit=210
Lower Limit=15(I have varied this value all over and had some success at times)
Slow Recovery=60(Same as Lower limit)
Do these 4 valvues etablish a curve? IE is it a linear interpolation between the points?

Closure speed=125(I have had this up to 255 and can see the effect)
Startup Delay=20