Problem with LED outputs using 60-2 wheel decoder

Poik · Post by **Poik** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:34 am

I am using MSnS-E code 029q2 to try to run my 4 cylinder Volvo engine using the stock 60-2 wheel and VR sensor, with coil packs from an LS1. I have successfully been able to get cylinders 2&3 to fire (wasted spark), but 1&4 do not. Cylinders 1&4 are fired off LED17, and 2&3 off LED19. I am using a 60º trigger angle. The wheel settings I am using are:

Trigger A: 33
Trigger A return: 41
Trigger B: 3
Trigger B return: 11

When looking at the physical LED outputs on the board, only LED19 blinks on and off while cranking. Also, if I switch the decoder settings to:

Trigger A: 3
Trigger A return: 11
Trigger B: 33
Trigger B return: 41

And switch the plug wires from 2&3 to 1&4, LED17 blinks, but LED19 does not.

I have also tried switching the wires on the VR sensor, but that does not seem to make a difference to this problem.

Another weird thing is that if I put the second trigger within 3 teeth of the trigger return of the first trigger, both LEDs will blink, like:

Trigger A: 3
Trigger A return: 11
Trigger B: 14
Trigger B return: 22

But anything above 14 for trigger B will make only one LED work.

Does anyone know what is going on? I am almost certain I have the right trigger settings, I just do not understand why I can't make my second trigger any more than 18º (3 teeth) away from my first trigger return.

Thank you in advance for helping.

snillet · Post by **snillet** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:58 pm

Could you post your MSQ ?, it´s much quicker to see all your settings for others then.

Poik · Post by **Poik** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:10 am

Also I am using v2.2. MSQ should be attached to this post, I have changed the wheel decoder settings some, but that should not and did not make a difference to only one spark output working.

Poik · Post by **Poik** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 2:00 pm

Ok so I decided to redo the wiring from the MS box to the VR sensor, but this time I was going to twist the pair together for better shielding in case that was the problem. So I get out my DeWalt drill, chuck up the connectors on the wires in the drill, and start slowly twisting the wire. MS happened to still be plugged in and on, my bad, but as I started slowly twisting the wire with the drill, I happened to look at the laptop and it read like 6500rpm or so. I stopped, and the RPM went to 0. Then I started again, and looked at the MS box, and both spark outputs were blinking. And then after I was done twisting the pair, I plugged it back up to the VR sensor and tried cranking, but still only one output is working. What, the f. I know the VR sensor is good, because I had the engine running out of the car, when it still had a distributor (distributor won't fit in this car, firewall).

So I guess I really need to borrow someone's stim to test this, because it looks like probably the problem is between MS and the missing tooth wheel. Grr..

Post by **jsmcortina** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 5:06 pm

A couple of things I noticed.

The first is that your advance table is wildly wrong and dangerous in the boost region. YOU WILL BREAK YOU ENGINE.

Secondly when using trigger return for cranking it is important to match the cranking advance number to the angle that your trigger return tooth happens at. Yes that was a mouthful.
As you have a 60 deg trigger and 6deg per tooth then I think your cranking advance is going to be 12deg.

You may want to try timebased cranking for starters while you confirm that the trigger angle is spot on.

Also.. a jump over to MS1/Extra development and try the 029r code I just posted. It is possible that you may be having the "poor cranking sync" issue.

James

Poik · Post by **Poik** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:40 pm

Thanks James. It is an NA carb'd engine, so I am only running spark. That's why I did not do any spark stuff above 120kpa.

I have already tried time based, but nothing changes. I will try putting my cranking advance to 12º, I did not realize that had to be set as well as the trigger return. I think I have seen in previous versions that cranking advance box will be grayed out when trigger return is selected, but I am unsure.

If I hook up all the coil packs and a timing light to #1, and set the fixed angle to 10º, I get right at 10º on the timing mark. It's like it isn't even reading my second trigger..

I will take a look at your 029r code and give that a shot, thanks for your help.

Poik · Post by **Poik** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 7:36 pm

029r did not solve the problem. I don't understand it at all.

Is there any way I can check to make sure MS is actually reading all 58 teeth? I am getting so frustrated right now.

Poik · Post by **Poik** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 8:46 pm

I have no clue what this data means, hopefully someone can help me:

Post by **jsmcortina** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 1:33 am

I don't think you have a 60-2 wheel.
That table editor dump appears to show 20 teeth then a gap.

The $40 xx is a missing tooth then 19 more values around $15 xx

Are you sure this isn't a 44-2-2 wheel with two opposing gaps? Wheels like this were used on some Volvos and are not suitable for wasted spark.
(EDIT)

James

Poik · Post by **Poik** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:16 pm

Thank you James. I am 99.99% sure it is a 60-2 wheel, but I guess today I will take off the starter and count the gaps. I was not aware that Volvo ever used a 44-2-2 wheel. This engine is from a boat, and when I took the direct drive stuff off, I recognized the flywheel as a standard LH2.4 flywheel found on 1990+ Volvos. Maybe I was too quick to make that assumption, I will check for sure today, thanks for interpreting that data for me, I appreciate it a lot.

Poik · Post by **Poik** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 1:55 pm

And that other 0.01%...

It's a 44-2-2 wheel.. Thanks for your knowledge on this. I guess I get to pull the heavy ass transmission and fix something else up. I'm pretty pissed that I made this stupid assumption, but glad the problem has been found.

Poik · Post by **Poik** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:09 pm

Update:
Finally got my hands on the correct 60-2 wheel I needed. After wrestling the transmission for awhile I got it all buttoned up. Double checked everything, all the settings look good, everything looks good.. Go to fire it up.. and.. It fires up! Thanks for all of your help, I am very happy I got this thing running!