Toyota 4agze, no start, but it's trying

myk · Post by **myk** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 10:25 am

I have a 4agze with coil packs, custom 60-2 crank trigger wheel which is reading RPM in MT.

When crank is at TDC tooth #11 is under the VR sensor. My triggers are set to A=6 and B=36, trigger angle is set at 66 degrees.

Cranking RPM set to 250.
It will fire a few times just after you try to start it, then if you keep cranking it will just stop firing and continue to spin with the starter. The fuel pump is definately on also.

Any ideas?

Mike

Post by **muythaibxr** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:55 am

maybe the engine is flooded. Have you tried flood clear mode??

Also, when you're starting it, after running flood clear mode for a few seconds, try just giving it a llittle throttle while starting. I've found that sometimes it helps when you don't have the cranking pulse-widths tuned yet.

Ken

suberimakuri · Post by **suberimakuri** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:01 pm

yeah. i just have default pw on my car now... no time to set up right (race car so doesn't matter too much) and I just crank first in flood clear, then let off a bit, then away it goes.

myk · Post by **myk** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:57 pm

Thanks for the ideas.

So I got the motor to run on cylinder 4 only so far. It's mulitport injection so aparently I got the right cranking pulsewidth.

I'm going to wire the injector negative triggers directly to MS instead of running them through the loom (as I am doing right now). Maybe that is why my other three cylinders are dead.

I checked the plugs, and coils, they seem fine.

Mike

myk · Post by **myk** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:17 pm

Ok, so now it still only will run on cyl 4. Just to see if coil driver B would work, I switched the trigger teeth for A and B, and then switched the coil power plugs, nothing happened (no spark or nothing). So is my second coil driver bad?

Even is my second coil driver is bad, I should still get a spark on cyl 1 since it is waste spark and it shares a coil with cyl 4, but for some reason this does not happen. So now I'm guessing that my injector bank B is bad as well?

I spent literally the entire day (7am-8pm) on this, I got nowhere and I am about ready to set it on fire.

If anyone has the solution I'd owe you so much.

Thanks guys,

Mike

suberimakuri · Post by **suberimakuri** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:30 pm

ok, I haven't much experience with the spark, but here's what I would do first.

Injection test:
1) Pull off all injector plugs.
2) Grab a 330ohm resistor and LED, twist leg of led to leg of resistor, henceforth called LEDTest.
3) Put LEDTest onto cyl #1 plug. Turn engine on, it should flash LEDTest. Crank, it should flash as the ecu squirts in cranking/starting fuel. Turn car off (LED may flash when turning off key). Record results.
4) Repeat #3 test with cyl #2.
5) Repeat #3 test with cyl #3.
6) Repeat #3 test with cyl #4.
7) Check Constant settings in Megatune, do you have simultaneous or alternating.

Confirm that you have same results for each cylinder.

If you have 2 squirts alternating, and injectors wired up into 2 banks/channels, one channel could be faulty.
Testing above would then show that 2 cylinders do not flash. These would be 2 cylinders connected together.

You may be able to use the same testing method for your ignition drivers. Using LED on the end of the ignition driver output..

myk · Post by **myk** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:25 pm

Thanks Karl,

I'm going to try that tomorrow. But today, I did try wiring my injectors to the known working injector bank, so assuming that I don't have any bad injectors (which I don't think would happen at 60k), then the injectors arn't the problem, and I doubt that injector timing would be a problem either. BTW, how does MS know when to squirt?

Mike

myk · Post by **myk** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:17 am

Ok, the car still definately only runs on cyl 4, which is the only way I could get it to work.

I have cyl 3+4 on Injector 1 and cyl 1+2 on Injector 2. I have cyl 1+4 on coil B and cyl 2+3 on coil A.

Using the 60-2 my triggers are 33A and 3B angle of 66.

Cyl 3 is definately getting fuel, and the other two are definately not.

When IGN is ON and MS is ON while engine if OFF, on coil B I see 12V+ from one side of the coil and little voltage (if any) from the negative trigger side; from coil A I can probe the + and - side of the coil and get a Voltage DC ~12V. So apparently the coil is grounded? I checked everywhere outside of MS and it does not seem to be grounded.

So if coil A doesn't fire will injector 2 not fire as well?

Mike

myk · Post by **myk** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:31 am

This is so rediculous. I wired up everything perfectly, and I spent like 15 hours since yesterday trying to figure this out. It has to either be a problem with MS or the code, so I'll just try 029s tomorrow and hopefully that'll work. I read that they had a problem with MS reading RPM, maybe that is related to me getting half spark and half injectors to fire with a grounded coil?
Anyway, this better work, I havent driven my car in over a year and I'm about to go crazy as nothing seems to work correctly for me :/

Mike

Post by **muythaibxr** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:20 am

please post your msq.

I'm sure there are people running similar setups to yours and have their cars running perfectly.

Ken

suberimakuri · Post by **suberimakuri** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 2:56 pm

hmm. I agree it's strange.

Have you got dual table selected or something?

Because the fuelling side is run of RPM, and has nothing to do with the spark outputs AFAIK.
So, if you see rpm in MT, then I would expect you to see both injector channels being pulsed. At least on the priming pulse. Did you get a chance to put the LED Tester on your 1+2 cyls?
I'm a little worried about your INJ2 driver.

myk · Post by **myk** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:56 pm

Ok, I forgot to get the MSQ, I'll grab it tomorrow.

I definately see RPM in MT. I hooked up a 300 ohm resistor and LED to each injector and I only saw it light up on 3+4, nothing on 1 or 2.

I took out all my plugs and saw that there was spark on 4+1, but not on 2+3.

Can't wait to get it on all 4 cyls, it runs pretty decent for 1 cylinder ;)

Mike

suberimakuri · Post by **suberimakuri** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:57 pm

sweet, good progress.

Fuel:
So your INJ2 is not going. We need to check your config is on 2 squirts alternating, and there's no dual table settings enabled anywhere.
It may be to go through MT->Tools->Review Mode.

Ignition:
Seems like you haven't enabled the second spark output Spark B.
This should be on LED19 IIRC.
LED17 is used for Spark A.

myk · Post by **myk** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:47 am

I definately set it to 2 squirts alternating. I don't see any dual table stuff anywhere. I only have one VE and spark table.

The funny thing is that I am running on spark output B only. A is the one that seems not to work, and I have both outputs set (LED17,LED19) in MT.

Mike

suberimakuri · Post by **suberimakuri** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:08 pm

Ok, try running view mode, there are some dual table "use table 1, use table 2" options in the menus somewhere, I just can't remember where...

If you could post your msq, then I could have a quick look.

What have you got set on FIDLE pin?

myk · Post by **myk** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:51 pm

I forgot to get my MSQ. I will get it tomorrow.

I justed realized that in MT I have seen some options that say "(DT)". Do I need to avoid that option to make my setup work?

Mike

suberimakuri · Post by **suberimakuri** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:02 pm

the defaults are for single table only, but it's easy to select DT options by mistake.

We'll see what your MSQ turns up.

myk · Post by **myk** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:04 pm

I'm using MSnS-E on MS1 v3.0.

Under fuel selection I believe I have: INJECTOR 1 -->GammaE=ON

INJECTOR 2 --> use table=1, GammaE=OFF, pulse inj2 during cranking=ON

Thanks,

Mike

myk · Post by **myk** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:54 am

Ok, I have my MSQ, but I'm not quite sure how to post it.
I don't have a domain.

Mike