Help - no PIP signal!

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Colin Doyle
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Help - no PIP signal!

Post by Colin Doyle »

(thread was previously titled "Need help with V3.0PCB EDIS mods..")

Alright, I've got a V3.0 PCB and I'm trying to set it up for -extra code with EDIS. I was originally following the directions on the sourceforge site, now I'm looking at this site, and I've noticed how greatly they differ. I've been talking to John L. (member here) and he says the MS2 page (linked above) is correct, but I must jumper to a different processor pin (rather than JS10.)

Bottom line: I'm lost in the woods, I've got two maps, and they conflict eachother... again. I went through this same type of fiasco with the V2.2 board a couple weeks ago. :shock:

Any guidance would be appreciated, thanks.

Colin
Last edited by Colin Doyle on Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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1985 Merkur XR4Ti
V3.0/MSnS-E/EDIS
Colin Doyle
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Post by Colin Doyle »

Here's a portion of my ongoing chat session with John:

JohnL: basically I think you're gonna do TFI mods but with a 5V pullup instead of 12V
JohnL: basically a pullup means you supply a default voltage (5V) via a resistor to the module and when the spark output triggers it goes to 0V
JohnL: yeah, you just hook up to a different source
JohnL: I think S12 is 12V and S12C is 5V but you'll have to double check that
JohnL: if nothing else, there is a 5V source clearly labeled in the proto area
JohnL: you jumper to D14 not JS10, that's the different "pin"

Also, I am not using the VB921 - just an EDIS module with ye olde school PIP/SAW.

ColinD: mind if i quote this chat in that thread?
JohnL: sure, be sure to disclaim the fact that I don't know what I'm doing.
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1985 Merkur XR4Ti
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John L.
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Post by John L. »

Based on the V3 Assembly Guide, EDIS is wired just like TFI but with a 5V pullup instead of 12V, which is why the directions on James Murray's site make no sense to me and conflict with the EDIS page in the assembly guide. Maybe it's just the code difference, if so I apologize.
Colin Doyle
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Post by Colin Doyle »

Here's another one:

http://www.msefi.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19872

Extrapolating upon the posts in that thread, it seems as though I should follow the sourceforge instructions for -extra. :RTFM:

Colin
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1985 Merkur XR4Ti
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Post by jsmcortina »

Colin Doyle wrote: Extrapolating upon the posts in that thread, it seems as though I should follow the sourceforge instructions for -extra. :RTFM:

Colin
That was rather the idea of writing those instructions....

When using MS1/Extra follow the instructions for MS1/Extra (the assembly guides in the Megamanual state this too.)

James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

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MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
Colin Doyle
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Post by Colin Doyle »

Alright, just making sure... :lol:

Thanks,
Colin
Image
1985 Merkur XR4Ti
V3.0/MSnS-E/EDIS
Colin Doyle
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Post by Colin Doyle »

I've completed the hardware mods, as described by the sourceforge page. I did step 50 in the assembly (Hall/Optical circuit), skipped 51, and did the "Hall/Optical" jumpering in step 52. I skipped step 65 (did not populate the high current ignition driver circuitry.) SAW on the EDIS module is connected to Pin 36, and PIP to 24.

The MS powers on fine and primes the fuel pump (and shows 2RPM while doing this), but when I crank the engine it will not display anything on the RPM gauge. I have hooked up a timing light and verified that the EDIS module is sparking the coils. Did I do something wrong with the PIP? :?

Thanks again,
Colin
Image
1985 Merkur XR4Ti
V3.0/MSnS-E/EDIS
Colin Doyle
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Post by Colin Doyle »

I plugged the old V2.2 board into my harness and the engine fired up - so I know the PIP signal is reaching the board on the correct pin (24.)

I must've screwed up something on the V3.0 board - can someone please review my assembly (the only deviations from a standard assembly being those steps noted in my previous post) and see if any glaring mistakes pop out at them?

Just to clarify, I am only using the V2.2 board as a means to test the PIP wiring - I am now trying to get the engine running on MSnS-E with a V3.0 board.

Thank you,
Colin
Image
1985 Merkur XR4Ti
V3.0/MSnS-E/EDIS
Colin Doyle
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Post by Colin Doyle »

Anyone? :o
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1985 Merkur XR4Ti
V3.0/MSnS-E/EDIS
zsilinszkyz
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Post by zsilinszkyz »

Hi,

I'm not sure what exactly you did for the input circuit.
What resistor do you use in series with the optocoupler (R12 on V3 board), both on your V3 and V2.2 board?
Have you installed D1 and D2?


You can check whether the CPU receives the PIP signal at all on your V3 board. You can do any or both of these tests:
a) Power the board while the PIP line is disconnected. Measure the voltage on pin 14 of the CPU while you apply 0V/12V on the PIP input of the board. You should see 5V/0V on pin 14 of the CPU.
b) While the engine running measure voltage on the PIP input of the board (you should see ~6V DC) and pin 14 of the CPU (~2.5V DC).

Zoltan
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Post by superchargingmachine »

Colin Doyle wrote:I've completed the hardware mods, as described by the sourceforge page. I did step 50 in the assembly (Hall/Optical circuit), skipped 51, and did the "Hall/Optical" jumpering in step 52. I skipped step 65 (did not populate the high current ignition driver circuitry.) SAW on the EDIS module is connected to Pin 36, and PIP to 24.

The MS powers on fine and primes the fuel pump (and shows 2RPM while doing this), but when I crank the engine it will not display anything on the RPM gauge. I have hooked up a timing light and verified that the EDIS module is sparking the coils. Did I do something wrong with the PIP? :?

Thanks again,
Colin
I hadn't been following but I took a look this morning.

Step50 Populates the board for Hall/Optical and Coil Triggering
Step51 Populates the board for VR conditioning

If you skipped step 51 as it seems to indicate above you don't have a VR circuit on the board. So no matter what you did after this you will not get a PIP.

You are using a 36-1 EDIS and VR right?
Colin Doyle
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Post by Colin Doyle »

Yeah, I'm using the 36-1 wheel and VR sensor, but the VR sensor is inputting directly to the EDIS module, then the EDIS module should be sending PIP signal through Pin 24 - do I need the VR circuit if I'm still using an external EDIS module? :?

Colin
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1985 Merkur XR4Ti
V3.0/MSnS-E/EDIS
superchargingmachine
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Post by superchargingmachine »

Sorry, not enough coffee before my reply.

Yes, you should be using the standard tach circuit for hall sensor, optical sensor, coil negative terminal or points and not need the VR conditioning circuit.

Does the V3 MS work on the stim?
Colin Doyle
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Post by Colin Doyle »

I don't have a stim... figured I could just one-shot this like my V2.2 build. I guess I figured wrong. :lol:

Colin
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1985 Merkur XR4Ti
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superchargingmachine
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Post by superchargingmachine »

In that case I would just carefully go back through the tach input circuit and be sure you haven't missed anything or installed anything wrong. Maybe even populate the entire Hall, coil, VR trigger section just to be sure...

I always wind up find that I have miss read something on the board, like where I get the 5V pull-up from or installed a diode backwards or something silly.
Colin Doyle
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Post by Colin Doyle »

zsilinszkyz wrote:I'm not sure what exactly you did for the input circuit.
What resistor do you use in series with the optocoupler (R12 on V3 board), both on your V3 and V2.2 board?
Have you installed D1 and D2?
I have a 1K resistor in the R12 spot.

I have not installed anything in the D1 position, and D2 has been jumpered.

Thanks,
Colin
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1985 Merkur XR4Ti
V3.0/MSnS-E/EDIS
Colin Doyle
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Post by Colin Doyle »

I've checked and double-checked the whole board and can't find anything that deviates from the assembly instructions.

Still no PIP - what's a guy to do? :?

Colin
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1985 Merkur XR4Ti
V3.0/MSnS-E/EDIS
zsilinszkyz
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Post by zsilinszkyz »

Colin Doyle wrote:Still no PIP - what's a guy to do? :?
Checks the voltages like I've mentioned earlier?
zsilinszkyz wrote:While the engine running measure voltage on the PIP input of the board (you should see ~6V DC) and pin 14 of the CPU (~2.5V DC).
Zoltan
Colin Doyle
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Post by Colin Doyle »

Got the tach signal working - I spent some time looking over the PCB schematics and realized I was sending the PIP signal directly to ground by jumpering XG1 and XG2, so I unjumpered them and it fired right up.... on two cylinders. So I've got some more troubleshooting ahead of me - looks as though I botched something in the harness when I was mending the o2 (no input previously.)

Thanks for the input, guys. :)

Colin
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1985 Merkur XR4Ti
V3.0/MSnS-E/EDIS
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