029q2 possible bug

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bens_cab
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resistor

Post by bens_cab »

i dont have a clue about resistor valuse but ill try

with a multi meter if i measure the resistance dial set to2k i get .994

right on the proto area from the vb921s they go as follows

vb 1, to the ground side to resistor then 5v side to chip
vb 2 to the ground side to resistor then 5v side to chip

the above 2 get bridged at the 5v point of the proto area then to the pin onthe chip

vb3 to the ground side to the resistor then to the 5v side then to the chip this is also bridged at the 5v side to a wire that goes to igbtin

that makes no sense to me im just trying to say what i see :lol:
bens_cab
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vb921s

Post by bens_cab »

if i have 4 vb921s paired to each spark output if one of the vb921s died would i still get a spark on that output? and if so what would happen could it cause said timing issues

just a thought
bens_cab
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timing

Post by bens_cab »

wasnt able to get another timing light so unable to confirm the timing at this point will try and get one tommorow

id be supprised if it was a wiring error on the ms plus that fact that it will start and run ok until load is applied via my right foot :lol:

it also dpesnt help that my laptop is resetting in mt all the time now so another problem to fix joy will this ever end summers nearly gone and im still sat on the drive :oops:

guess ill have to read some more and see what i can do if there is anyone thats local to me feel free to come and sort it out for me :lol:
jsmcortina
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Post by jsmcortina »

Getting resets will cause all manner of problems and the engine will never run right.

James
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jsmcortina
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Post by jsmcortina »

Could you remind us of your wiring from the VB921 to the coils and the type of coils etc.
EDIT: Checked back a few pages and you already told us the coil type.

So here's a different suggestion. Beg borrow or buy a Ford coilpack and wire that up in wasted spark mode, use the old crappy leads that come with it. These are a proven unit and will eliminate the coils from the investigation.

Could you post you current MSQ, one I have here is "ben-weds26-7-6.msq" which has "MSnS" and "Generic wheel" both set - did you fix that?

James
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bens_cab
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msq

Post by bens_cab »

i did try another coilpack but was unable to get it runnning my coils are the non intelligent ones

should generic wheel and msns distributer mode be set that how i have you say did i fix it ?
newtyres1
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Post by newtyres1 »

James, here's the 2 msq's you asked for, spark advances with fixed angle set. They're set up alpha-n and degrees C. I'm hoping it's a simple setting that's wrong, also hope I don't get to look too stupid :)
bens_cab
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code

Post by bens_cab »

ok i had msns dizzy mode set and generic wheel ive just been out and tried switching off msns mode and the car still runs although its now flooding up quite a bit but that could just be that its cold ish out when i get home from work ill try using my desktop again and change the setting and see what happens

if like i did you have both set what would it do ? could it be ive made a school boy error and that is the reason its advancing so much ?

i did check the timing with just generic wheel set and it was still advancing but i guess that could be that i need to try and swap the vr wires again
jsmcortina
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Post by jsmcortina »

Having MSnS mode set may cause strange behaviour. I would have to spend a chunk of time reading the code to be sure exactly what it would do (if anything.)

Yep, try those VR wires.

James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

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bens_cab
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msns setting

Post by bens_cab »

switched on the msns setting and it seems to drive alot better although it still does weird things with the timing light so for now ive left the trigger angle at 60deg

still missfires abit not as much putting it down to the fact the ve needs tuning

and i did swap the vr wires and it started reading my idle as 4000rpm so swapped them back

fingers crossed ill try and confirm the timing as soom as i can get another gun
jsmcortina
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Post by jsmcortina »

You did mean switched OFF the MSnS setting didn't you?

It is imperative that only one spark mode is selected, so either MSnS or HEI7 or EDIS or TFI or Generic Wheel. Never two at the same time.

James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

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bens_cab
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yep

Post by bens_cab »

yes james i had msns set and generic wheel ive read the manual so many times and even had a few people go over my settings you were the first person to see what i had done so now i just have generic wheel set :oops: :oops:

so hopefully with a bit of tuning now it should stop the missfiring i will try and get a mickey mouse timing light to check my timing asap but it seems to run better with a 60deg trigger angle
aerowerks
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Post by aerowerks »

are you 100% sure that the coils are "dumb", I have never seen 3-wire coils that didn't have dwell control built in, that would also explain your VB 921 getting hot as the coil internal circuitry shorts to ground to prevent misfires and accidental startups with ignition powerup;
jsmcortina
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Post by jsmcortina »

I am inclined to agree with aeroworks. Something very strange is going on and I am convinced it is unrelated to the code as there are literally hundreds of installs using the wheel decoder.

_Please_ try a Ford coilpack (Escort, Fiesta, Mondeo).

James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
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bens_cab
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coils

Post by bens_cab »

there are 2 types of vw coil on plug pack 3pin and 4 pin

the 3 pin have a seperate ignition module
the 4 pin have it buil in

i have not fitted the ignition module so the vb92s are acting in its place
im 100% sure that the coil packs i have are dumb

if you remenber i tried to fit the ignition module and lost all spark i thenn tried a peugoet 306 wasted spark coilpack which caused me all manner of problems so went back to the coil on plug setup
jsmcortina
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Post by jsmcortina »

I'm afraid I cannot offer any more help. We know the code works, but we know that your install doesn't.

James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

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newtyres1
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Post by newtyres1 »

James, did you get a chance to have a look at those msq's I posted? I'm keen to find out what I'm doing wrong...

Ian.
newtyres1
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Post by newtyres1 »

OK I found it, sorry to bother you, it's not the settings. I was using dwell control and the LED strobe fires on a rising edge, so in inverted spark out mode it was triggering from the beginning of the dwell period, instead of from when the coil would fire. While I'm here, I did notice that with V8 wasted spark and 8-1 trigger on the crank, the dwell diminishes from 3mS to 2mS between 4k and 5k rpm, then bounces back to 3mS above 5k rpm? Is this another problem at my end? Edit - the actual rpm range is dependent on batt voltage, higher batt voltage = higher rpm range affected.

Ian.
jsmcortina
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Post by jsmcortina »

newtyres1 wrote:While I'm here, I did notice that with V8 wasted spark and 8-1 trigger on the crank, the dwell diminishes from 3mS to 2mS between 4k and 5k rpm, then bounces back to 3mS above 5k rpm?
I cannot say I've noticed this, but the dwell is dependant on prediction calcs which are difficult to get right. I do know though that since Aug 05 the code handles dwell a lot better - prior to that my V8 would not run in wasted spark mode.

James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
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