ion332 wrote:Hrm, is it possible for this same thing to happen if I am using a hall effect on the v2.2 board?
Just wondering.
I like Ben was having the same problem with my VW 16vT using a V3 board and upgraded to 29q2 firmware from a stable 27d code, My 16v motor has a hall sensor and bosch 7pin ignitor. You go to Spark settings and fix the spark to lets say 10deg. With the laptop in the engine bay and timing light connected, when the motor was revved to 2000revs or more the engine timing was advancing uncontrollably on the timing light (eventually causing a backfire) and on the Laptop graphics it was showing the entered fixed 10degs. I used logic to work out that there was nothing wrong with my hardware and eventually went to an old 27c calibration, that I used with MT225b627, and "burned to controller" with the present 29q2 firmware and using MT225.
I got few lines warning of missing code which I ignored then the problem dissappeared and I continued mapping the car with no problems to date.
I still dont know what happened.
All I knew is that I initially wrote my maps in 29q2 but had real isssues with my timing until I reverted to opening an old working code on the new firmware.
Similar things happens if i try to use the 025 style wheel decoder, that just does not work on my setup. Get misfires and stumbling on higher rpms. Also noticed that the timing advances by itself in that mode.
(Bosch VR sensor on 60-2 wheel).
Peugeot 309GR1990 XU9JAZ(4cyl 1.9litre) 10.8:1 CR with 60-2 VR wheel decoding ,V2.2 card, singel coil and dizzy spark ,360cc 0 280 150 431 injectors. Msns-E hi-res 10d2 and E85(Ethanol) in the gastank.
right i tried using 024 wheel in the decoder settings no change
ive even tried toyotecs idea found the o27c default file transfered my setting to it and it still does the same it didnt give me any warning messages either when i burned it?
starting wonder weather i have a major problem with my ecu now
if i set a fixed angle to 10deg and close the window open up spark table i can blip the pedal and still see the spark moving around the table so i dont think at this point its fixing my timing although the gauge only reads 10deg?????
if its a problem with the vr circuit on the board then im going to be realy cheesed off is there any way of testing the vr circuit
should i try timebased timing or will that make no difference
ill attached my ini file if someone can check it for me
is it possible all these problems im having could be usb related i was trying to reflash the ecu with the laptop and it wouldnt do it kept coming up with errors
so i took the desktop pc outside and used that flashed it first time i know that theres alot of info on how the usb causes problems but my question is if i used my usb to burn an msq could it be sending enough info for it to run but casue the timing to creep
so once ive recharged the battery on the car im going to try and use the desktop pc and see what it does pinkies crossed
I don't know what O2 sensor you are using but there are some really rich spots in that log. Probably enough to cause a mis-fire. Give autotune a shot but be careful as autotune cannot detect mis-fires and a mis-fire is seen as lean not rich and will cause an erroneous adjustment. If you have a spot like that try to drive the car as close to the VE/RPM bin as you can without getting a mis-fire then manually adjust bins around that point to something close to the autotuned spot. Then try autotune again and you slowly work in on a good VE table.
I can say that i solve my problem with advance changing during rpm. it was ignition module who has aparently dwell control built inside, after removing stock coil evrithing is fine. Do your coil`s have some sort of ignition module?
no ignition module my coil are driven directly from the vb921s
also using lc1 wideband
my ve still needs lots of work and my settings so i thinking that it could be that if i can get hold of another timing light which i dont see able to at the moment il confirn the timing
with my timing light i get the marks 10deg btdc at idle by adjusting the trigger and angle to 72deg from 60deg and it doesnt seem to run nice it wont rev very well so either my timing light is lying or i need to do some adjustments to everythonk else around a 72deg trigger angle
with a 60deg trigger angle it feels much better but according to my light the timing is way off??
I've been doing some bench testing of the 029q2 and 029s code for ignition and found that with the spark output inverted set to "yes" and fixed angle set to 0 or 5 the timing advances a lot with rpm. It doesn't do this with output inverted set to "no". I loaded 026h8 code and it doesn't do this. Very strange but maybe I have some little setting wrong. Once the fixed angle is set to -10 everything looks OK, except that the timing advance in inverted mode has an extreme range. I and others must have something set up wrong since this would really stop a motor by giving way too much advance. But it must be working for some people or we'd really be hearing about it.
For testing I'm using an 8-1 wheel in a mini-lathe with hall sensor, and the spark out from the MS is driving an LED strobe illuminating the wheel.
the car will start and run from cold its a bit lumpy but it does idle ok even when warm it will idle ok slight tmissfire but i put it down to my settings needing fine tuning
its only when i try to check the timing that i have problems fixed angle 10deg it the marks advance till they dissapear[/b]
now i think of it my vb921s must get quite hot as before ive had issues with the wires coming off from the middle pin i just soldered it back on and it was fine so it could be my dwell but that doesnt awnser the timing thing
Ben, if I was in your position I'd be having exactly the same problems, that's all I'm saying, hoping that someone else might be able to shed some light on it. It could be one simple overlooked setting, but I can't find that either. I was testing some ignition options the last few days and noticed what you see. If you're running VB921's and wired up like the Extra site shows then your spark should be set to inverted, as you have. Best to wait for some help I think.
just ran anther earth from the battery to the head where all my ms earths go to just incase it was that the car starts and idles even better now even when warm it doesnt miss a beat
but when i watch my laptop the screen is flickering and resetting sometimes which it didnt do before as much if i open up say my spark settings it will give me settings that are completely wrong i know so im thinking my usb cable could be a problem now going to stick the desktop out there and see if it does the same
if it doesnt then somehow i need to set the usb settings ive been through the threads but it doesnt make sense to me
newtyres1 wrote:I've been doing some bench testing of the 029q2 and 029s code for ignition and found that with the spark output inverted set to "yes" and fixed angle set to 0 or 5 the timing advances a lot with rpm. It doesn't do this with output inverted set to "no". I loaded 026h8 code and it doesn't do this.
Could you post your MSQs for these two codes please.
I have run 029q2 using four VB921 on my V8 with spark inverted and everything appear to run fine. I recently verified the spark timing on the engine and all seemed well (no weird advance/retard)
Just checked on the scope as well and I do not see any peculiar advance when running a 36-1 pulsetrain into the MS, a fixed 0 deg angle and inverted YES.
Ben,
If the middle wire is melting off the VB921 then something is very seriously wrong with your dwell setting or wiring.
Could you spell out exactly how you have the VB921 wired in or post a photo of the connections at the LED end of the board?
James
Last edited by jsmcortina on Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
it was weird i was cranking the car to try and get a spark then i noticed smoke coming from the board when i opened it up the middle wire had moved across to pin 3 so it must have got hot to move its done it twice now but each time ive been lucky and noticed right away
1, closest to db37
pin 1, goes to proto area then resisor
pin2, goes to db3 spark output
pin3, bridged to all 4 vb921s
2,next one in
pin1, proto area then resistor
pin2, goes to db4 spark output
pin3, bridged to all 4
3, 3rd along
pin1, goes to proto area then resistor
pin2 goes to db5 spark output
4,this is on the back on vb 1 other side of board unsure of where they go as printed circuit
on the proto area the wires from the vb921s go into a resistor then to the back of the processor chip i think it like this so that i have 4x vb921s paired for my wasted spark
i got the ecu pre built form bill shurvinton if that helps
Could you detail the resistor connections are values please.
The VB921 should never get hot enough to melt the solder. If they get too hot to touch, kill the power right away.
The only time I would expect that to happen is if spark is NOT inverted when it ought to be, or if the board wiring is such that they are electrically inverted.
but my question is if i used my usb to burn an msq could it be sending enough info for it to run but casue the timing to creep 
