Tuning with MAF on a 20V 4AGE

wrenchdad · Post by **wrenchdad** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 7:34 pm

Hey Hess.

Good to hear from you, Have you noticed any surges on your setup? I know you said that you are still tuning but I can really feel it when I go up in like 3rd gear and hold it and not shift, then I feel the surges/ misses, it feels like the timing is advancing and then backing off, but its not showing up in the logs.

I have rigged up a test fitting for checking the fuel pressure, using an spare banjo bolt, and a couple of other fittings, I drilled and tapped the bolt head and then screwed an adpater to get it to 1/8" pipe threads for the test fitting, I used JB weld on the threads of the adapater to make sure it would not leak, it should be ready to install in the morning.

Did you find that pulley? Let me know what the shipping will be,
thanks and later wd

ps Thanks anyway, SCM, I am going to look at fuel pressure first, I have never seen what it is when the engine is running just with the fuel line dead headed and the pump running to make sure I had pressure. It was 70+ without any regulation and nowhere to go. later wd

wrenchdad · Post by **wrenchdad** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:16 am

Guys.

Just a progress update, checked the fuel pressure, at idle its a steady 35psi, kick the engine up to high revs it jumps up to a steady 40psi. So its not fuel pressure but it was worth checking to be sure.

I am going to run a heavier gauge wire to feed the ECU and O2 controller, just want to make sure its not dropping voltage when the O2 heater kicks in, I may even run two so they will not be able to interact with each other.

If ya'll have any ideas let me know,

thanks wd

Post by **muythaibxr** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:51 am

WD:

Your ignition misses could just be because advance in that area is too high. Try dropping it a bit in that area and see what happens.

I haven't had any misses or anything of that sort at the rpms/speed/gear you're talking about, but I'm driving a slightly different config from you and it's also possible that you have what's left of your distributor adjusted slightly differently from mine. Even if it's off by 1 or 2 degrees it could make a difference.

I went on another run yesterday.... and confirmed the better fuel economy... literally almost double what it was before. I got about 35 mpg yesterday and haven't even leaned out my cruise part of the table yet. However, that was probably the last run that setup will see on the msns-extra code...

Tonight I'm going to start getting everything set up for ms2/extra testing.

Ken

wrenchdad · Post by **wrenchdad** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:42 am

Ken

Thanks for the idea on too much advance, I will setup the MS to check the base timing today to make sure that its on 10. I also saw on a thread

http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=21737

where James (jsmcortina) has just release 29t that corrects problems with the WUE/ASE issue, I hadn't noticed the issue yet but I have not got that part tune yet. So I may try to run it after I check the timing.

How much timing are you running in cruise? I was seeing about 35-36 on my setup but like you said it might be higher or lower depending on my base setting.

thanks again, wd

PS, One question on the O2 switch point, I am trying to understand this, in the tuning instructions it tells me for a WB to set the switch point to 2.5 but you say it doesn't matter when using the Target table. This seems to conflict, but is that because the tuning stuff is written with a different code in mind, as in not using MSnS-E? If so that makes sense. thanks wd

Post by **muythaibxr** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 2:37 pm

yeah, the switchpoint only matters if you're not using the AFR table. The code in question that you were reading about was the original megasquirt code... which didn't have AFR tables.

wrenchdad · Post by **wrenchdad** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 4:38 pm

Well that clears that confusion up. I finished up running the larger wire to the MS and O2 controller, and clean the connections on the engine temp because I have been seeing about 3 degree step changes, not spikes but changes that have gone 3 degrees either up or down but its always 3 degrees, strange but I figure its in the connection at the sensor. It was a little dirty so maybe that will stop that.

I will check the base timing when I get the car back together, or tomorrow morning at the latest. Also thinking about loading the latest code, the S rev is out and it has a few bug fixes in it. But I probably will only do that if the surges clear up on the code that I am running right now.

thanks again, wd

Post by **muythaibxr** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:02 pm

the 3 degree changes are likely just because the ms1 chip has 8 bit ADC channels... only 256 levels are possible, so at the higher temperatures each step equals a larger step in temperature.

wrenchdad · Post by **wrenchdad** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:03 pm

Ken,

If I understand this right, what is happening is it flipping between bits on the A to D convertor and that is why I am seeing the 3 degree changes? Makes sense, I kept wondering why is was always three degrees only once was it different and then it was 2 degrees but the very next one was three again.

Got the car back together, will look at the timing in the morning right after I change the oil in my daugther's car.

thanks wd

wrenchdad · Post by **wrenchdad** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:51 am

Ken,

Man, you nailed it!!! The timing was 2 degrees off! But I was thinking that if I found it off, it would be advanced but it was on 8 degrees?? But most of the surges are gone, still seeing some but when I am able to take a look at the laptop when it happens, I can see the O2 switching from rich to lean, high 13s to low 16s and it is happen right at bin switch over points like swapping from one rpm bin to the next or map bin.
So that should just be in the VE table, just need to do more tuning.

thanks again, you are the MAN !! later wd

wrenchdad · Post by **wrenchdad** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:35 am

Guys

Do any of ya'll use the VexME to tune with? I had been using the MegaLogViewer but was not having the success that I wanted. SO I decided to give the VexME a try but after I set up target AFR table and loaded my latest VE in THEN ran a recent log thru it, BUT when it finished it was only showing hits in a very few bins and they were all in the low kpa and high rev bins?? I know I was not in those bins during that log. I even went back and ran it again with the hit rate at 10 down from the 25 it was on and got the same thing. Another thing the changed bins have impossible numbers in them, like in the 800-900 range and even had one that was over 1100????

Is there something I am missing??? Seems like a simple program and would like to try it but it not giving me any thing to work with.

thanks wd

wrenchdad · Post by **wrenchdad** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 10:52 am

Hey Guys,

I should have done some more reading before I posted!!

Ken,

Found where you said to hand edit the log files and remove the header line and the /100 from the rpm and delete the other rpm column. Follow that and it worked!! I ran a log thru it and will run that VE table on the way to work today.

had a little trouble with the file saving part but finally got it straight.

thanks, next time I will look before I post! later wd

Keithg · Post by **Keithg** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:02 am

I use autotune. Built into MegaTune. Works a snap.

KeithG

Posted by email.

Post by **muythaibxr** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:20 am

It doesn't work well for ITBs because of the way we have to create our VE tables to get decent tunability.

wrenchdad · Post by **wrenchdad** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:22 pm

Hey Ken,

I had something happen that I have not had any trouble with before, I got two resets within about 2 minutes, in the middle of cruising while driving to work in the afternoon. It happen once more a couple of days later at night going home. The first time I was not logging the 12vdc supply to the MS but after the resets I configed MegaTune to log it, Not seeing any drop outs on the supply when it happens, but I have seen times when the voltages drops down to battery voltage, 12.3ish for about a second, then comes back up to 13.8vdc right after that. I am also seeing constant swings on the the 12v sometimes as much as a .5 vdc.
I am thinking I may have problems with my alternator voltage regulator and/or diode pack. I am using the alternator from the car that was on the 4AFE engine, it fit the harness. but I have the 20v alternator which should be good and the pigtail for the connection.

Here is what I am thinking about doing, first get the 20v alt tested to makesure it is good, regulating and no AC on the DC, good diode pack. Then I have to change the right side axle (clicking and leaking slightly at the trans seal) SO while the axle is out and there is a big hole to get the alt thru swap them out, and installing the 20v alt connector in parallel with the 4AFE connector so that if the 20V alt ever takes a dump I can just get a new standard alternator and just plug in it to the right connector.

If I still have problems with the 12v swings THEN I will use a filter on the 12vdc supply to the MS, I would just rather not coverup a problem with a filter if I can just do away with it. I also read on one of the threads about putting a 28000uf 20v cap with a .01uf 200v cap in parallel with it , on the main feed close to the battery, would that do the same thing as a filter at the MS?

thoughts?

thanks wd

ps, I have ran my VVT, AC clutch and TPS wires in with the injector wires across the top of the engine, should I re-route those wires while I have the car down for this other work? Also the TPS is not shielded, does it need to be?

thanks again, wd