Ken
Thanks for the heads up on the maps, I noticed that my engine temps were in the low 160 to high 150s in the mornings and then in the 180s in the afternoons so I stopped at Toyota and pick up a stat and sure enough it was stuck part open, the guts of it were cocked over to one side? never saw that before.
I had bumped up the startup and warmup settings before I left work and it crank pretty good but after changing the stat, it flooded out? I went back and bumb them down about half what I had moved them up. Work in progress.
In the warmup wizard, I don't have any numbers in the cranking pulsewidth or the After start pulse width? They are grayed out? Are they supposed to be? Also how does the Acceleration Wizard work? Is this base on rate of change, either MAP or TPS? If I get that but what is the thnig at the bottom for the "MAPdot Threshold" what part does that play?
AND why doesn't the slider work in the middle of the screen? Is that a way to blend the two choices?
sorry for so many question, just for me I am plowing a new row here.
thanks wd
Tuning with MAF on a 20V 4AGE
Moderators: jsmcortina, muythaibxr
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superchargingmachine
- Experienced MS/Extra'er
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There is a separate window now for cranking settings you can use a table that gives more adjustability.
You will need to balance how much prime to use with the warmup values you use. It took me a while to get the 2 balanced without the occasional flood.
I have used Mapdot accel and it really helps smooth things outs. I think the slider was meant to allow a blend of the 2 TPS and Map based but all it does for me is allow me to select one or the other. So if you are using tpsbased I don't think you need to worry about mapdot threshold.
You will need to balance how much prime to use with the warmup values you use. It took me a while to get the 2 balanced without the occasional flood.
I have used Mapdot accel and it really helps smooth things outs. I think the slider was meant to allow a blend of the 2 TPS and Map based but all it does for me is allow me to select one or the other. So if you are using tpsbased I don't think you need to worry about mapdot threshold.
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muythaibxr
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wrenchdad
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superchargingmachine
Where is this other window for cranking settings that has a table? I must be missing it somewhere.
On startup and warmup are these numbers are in pulse width correct? And the VE tables are in % so is the only way I am going to know what my pulse with is and to take a look at the logs with the viewer and then set the numbers in the WU and SU fields or just keeping guessing until I get it right? I would kind of like to make some educated guess for a change.
Ken
On MAPdot or TPSdot which one should I use with your Hybrid code? And I still don't understand what they do or where they come into play on the fuel curves.
AlsoI know its a little off subject, but how are you coming on your MSII-Extra code, Ken? Last I read you were about ready for some road testing? Would changing over to MSII processor cause me to have to redo the outputs, like VVT, FAN and Spark off the LEDs and related wiring, OR will it stay the same on all that? Just wondering. Thanks for all the "Extra" time and work that you do.
One more off subject, Ken I still can't get my 91's tach to work, what year is your car? I am thinking about trying to install a tach from a 88 CELICA GTS into my dash from the pics of the front and back looks like it will fit, I can see the three electrical connections and the two mounting bolts. But I have seen two different ranges on them either 0-8K or 0-9K, I just want to get one that is as close to the same as yours as I can, seeing yours has been made to work. Just thinking that the little circuit board that is internally mounted on the tach is what is causing mine not to work, if nothing else I might even be able to use just the board. Thanks
thanks guys, ya'll make this process bearable! later wd
One other thing, after I did the first tune thru the viewer and drove the next morning I was seeing low 14s on the O2 readings in the morning (Great, getting closer) when the air temp was about 75 degrees but that afternoon, without changing, anything but some of the startup/warmup stuff, I was seeing 11s and 12s on the O2 at 110 degrees inlet air. Isn't there supposed to be a correction factor for that? Does it have to be cal'ed or does just runing the EasyTherm take care of that too?
thanks again, wd
Where is this other window for cranking settings that has a table? I must be missing it somewhere.
On startup and warmup are these numbers are in pulse width correct? And the VE tables are in % so is the only way I am going to know what my pulse with is and to take a look at the logs with the viewer and then set the numbers in the WU and SU fields or just keeping guessing until I get it right? I would kind of like to make some educated guess for a change.
Ken
On MAPdot or TPSdot which one should I use with your Hybrid code? And I still don't understand what they do or where they come into play on the fuel curves.
AlsoI know its a little off subject, but how are you coming on your MSII-Extra code, Ken? Last I read you were about ready for some road testing? Would changing over to MSII processor cause me to have to redo the outputs, like VVT, FAN and Spark off the LEDs and related wiring, OR will it stay the same on all that? Just wondering. Thanks for all the "Extra" time and work that you do.
One more off subject, Ken I still can't get my 91's tach to work, what year is your car? I am thinking about trying to install a tach from a 88 CELICA GTS into my dash from the pics of the front and back looks like it will fit, I can see the three electrical connections and the two mounting bolts. But I have seen two different ranges on them either 0-8K or 0-9K, I just want to get one that is as close to the same as yours as I can, seeing yours has been made to work. Just thinking that the little circuit board that is internally mounted on the tach is what is causing mine not to work, if nothing else I might even be able to use just the board. Thanks
thanks guys, ya'll make this process bearable! later wd
One other thing, after I did the first tune thru the viewer and drove the next morning I was seeing low 14s on the O2 readings in the morning (Great, getting closer) when the air temp was about 75 degrees but that afternoon, without changing, anything but some of the startup/warmup stuff, I was seeing 11s and 12s on the O2 at 110 degrees inlet air. Isn't there supposed to be a correction factor for that? Does it have to be cal'ed or does just runing the EasyTherm take care of that too?
thanks again, wd
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muythaibxr
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wrenchdad:
Easytherm will help you calibrate your air temperature sensor curve if you're not using a GM air temp sensor.
As far as your accel enrichment questions, those are all answered in the megamanual on www.megasquirt.info .If you have not read everything there having to do with tuning, I would strongly suggest doing that, as it'll bring down the number of questions you have significantly, and accel enrichments are one specifically covered there....
MAPdot is using rate of change in MAP to cause fuel enrichments when you step on the throttle, TPSdot uses the TPS for the same purpose.
I'm going to be testing the ms2/extra wheel decoder code in-car when I come back from vacation (I'll be gone starting saturday until the saturday after)... I just don't have time before vacation to get to it.
VVT and fan control will likely need some rewiring internally on the MS, as you can drive them directly with the stepper motor driver if you're using relays, and you'll no longer need extra transistor circuits. Ignition will still be done the same way off the LEDs. You should be able to do the internal mods in the MS case such that you won't need to do any external changes to your harness.
Also, on startup, the cranking pulse widths are in pulse-widths... but warmup enrichment and afterstart enrichment are in percentages... and to make it more confusing, warmup enrichments start at 100% meaning no enrichment, where with afterstart, 0% means 0 enrichment.
Both of the cranking pulse width windows should be in "cranking settings" I believe.
Easytherm will help you calibrate your air temperature sensor curve if you're not using a GM air temp sensor.
As far as your accel enrichment questions, those are all answered in the megamanual on www.megasquirt.info .If you have not read everything there having to do with tuning, I would strongly suggest doing that, as it'll bring down the number of questions you have significantly, and accel enrichments are one specifically covered there....
MAPdot is using rate of change in MAP to cause fuel enrichments when you step on the throttle, TPSdot uses the TPS for the same purpose.
I'm going to be testing the ms2/extra wheel decoder code in-car when I come back from vacation (I'll be gone starting saturday until the saturday after)... I just don't have time before vacation to get to it.
VVT and fan control will likely need some rewiring internally on the MS, as you can drive them directly with the stepper motor driver if you're using relays, and you'll no longer need extra transistor circuits. Ignition will still be done the same way off the LEDs. You should be able to do the internal mods in the MS case such that you won't need to do any external changes to your harness.
Also, on startup, the cranking pulse widths are in pulse-widths... but warmup enrichment and afterstart enrichment are in percentages... and to make it more confusing, warmup enrichments start at 100% meaning no enrichment, where with afterstart, 0% means 0 enrichment.
Both of the cranking pulse width windows should be in "cranking settings" I believe.
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superchargingmachine
- Experienced MS/Extra'er
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I think muythaibxr answered most of your questions.
IAT can be an issue. But, if you are going rich I suspect that your operating point has moved to an untuned area of the VE map. Usually, IAT problems, like heat soak cause you to go lean. That can be compensated for by using CLT related IAT correction.
IAT can be an issue. But, if you are going rich I suspect that your operating point has moved to an untuned area of the VE map. Usually, IAT problems, like heat soak cause you to go lean. That can be compensated for by using CLT related IAT correction.
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muythaibxr
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unless of course you aren't using a GM air temperature sensor, and never used easytherm to calibrate....
If you *did* use easytherm to calculate, or are using a GM sensor, then there could be some other kind of problem.... which could be tuned out with the coolant temp related air density correction... or you could fix it by modding the table that easytherm creates manually.
If you *did* use easytherm to calculate, or are using a GM sensor, then there could be some other kind of problem.... which could be tuned out with the coolant temp related air density correction... or you could fix it by modding the table that easytherm creates manually.
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wrenchdad
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Ken
Yes, I am not using GM sensors but 91 Corolla air sensor and the 20V CLT. I did the pot on the stove thing and got the low, mid and high and ran them thru EasyTherm and let it mod the s19 file which I am running now. So I will have to do the easythrem on the Hybrid files that you send to me, haven't loaded them yet. I figured I would just keep tuning on the 29q until I get the MAP table right and then which over.
Looking at the logs, I am seeing a small temp spike of about 3 degrees, it only lasts for a few seconds and then doesn't come back very much but its there, I will have to track it down. Thinking it might be at the sensor end, may have to see if I can clean the contacts and dope them up with something to keep them clean.
I will take another look at all the settings in Megatune and see if anything looks wrong on the temp end of things. But it might just be like superchargingmachine said that I just ease up into a unmapped area, I mean I was headed home and not to work SO probably was in a slightly higher rpm bin, huh? HA! I will at a good look at the logs and see if that is the case.
thanks again, guys later wd
Yes, I am not using GM sensors but 91 Corolla air sensor and the 20V CLT. I did the pot on the stove thing and got the low, mid and high and ran them thru EasyTherm and let it mod the s19 file which I am running now. So I will have to do the easythrem on the Hybrid files that you send to me, haven't loaded them yet. I figured I would just keep tuning on the 29q until I get the MAP table right and then which over.
Looking at the logs, I am seeing a small temp spike of about 3 degrees, it only lasts for a few seconds and then doesn't come back very much but its there, I will have to track it down. Thinking it might be at the sensor end, may have to see if I can clean the contacts and dope them up with something to keep them clean.
I will take another look at all the settings in Megatune and see if anything looks wrong on the temp end of things. But it might just be like superchargingmachine said that I just ease up into a unmapped area, I mean I was headed home and not to work SO probably was in a slightly higher rpm bin, huh? HA! I will at a good look at the logs and see if that is the case.
thanks again, guys later wd
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muythaibxr
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yeah if you went through easytherm and all that, then the temps should be fine.... so you probably did just go throught an unmapped area...
I took the corolla for a run (1985 corolla gts btw) last night.
I had forgotten how much fun that thing is to drive (spending too much time at the bench writing and testing code).
I still haven't managed to totally get rid of my 6000-7000 rpm tach spike, but I know what's causing it... it only happens when the VVT relay is on, and that relay gets power from the same wire as my injectors and ignitors... in other words I have too many things pulling +12v from that one wire, and I think once I get to a certain rpm, the ignitors are doing something weird and pulling more current, or causing noise to go into the MS through that relay. Anyway, I think if I go over my harness and fix up that problem, everything will be fine.
I also lost some power because (running the hires code) for some reason even though the first time I started the car, the baro was at 99 kPa, the second time it read 96, so 96 was as high as it would go during that run, causing my ignition timing to be advanced 1 degree too far (which makes a difference). It also caused the megasquirt to pull 6% of the fuel from my VE table in that area. Moral of that story? I need to port my hybrid code over to hires and add support for hybrid ignition as well.
Anyway, I'll have that thing running perfectly, including between 6000-7000 when I get back from vacation.
Ken
I took the corolla for a run (1985 corolla gts btw) last night.
I had forgotten how much fun that thing is to drive (spending too much time at the bench writing and testing code).
I still haven't managed to totally get rid of my 6000-7000 rpm tach spike, but I know what's causing it... it only happens when the VVT relay is on, and that relay gets power from the same wire as my injectors and ignitors... in other words I have too many things pulling +12v from that one wire, and I think once I get to a certain rpm, the ignitors are doing something weird and pulling more current, or causing noise to go into the MS through that relay. Anyway, I think if I go over my harness and fix up that problem, everything will be fine.
I also lost some power because (running the hires code) for some reason even though the first time I started the car, the baro was at 99 kPa, the second time it read 96, so 96 was as high as it would go during that run, causing my ignition timing to be advanced 1 degree too far (which makes a difference). It also caused the megasquirt to pull 6% of the fuel from my VE table in that area. Moral of that story? I need to port my hybrid code over to hires and add support for hybrid ignition as well.
Anyway, I'll have that thing running perfectly, including between 6000-7000 when I get back from vacation.
Ken
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wrenchdad
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Ken
Thats what I am thinking too, that I just wewnt into an untuned area on the table. When you run the logs for the viewer, how much authority do you have your O2 set for? I had read on the DIYAutoTune site that is should be low like 10% so you would get a lot of switch points, is that about right?
When you say hires code, are you talking about the MSII code? You said that "ms2 has x-tau", what is x-tau? Is it a type of blended fuel cal?
thats for the info on your car's year, I think I am going to try installing an earlier year tach into my 91's dash, the older cars spark system used individual componets where my 91 had everything in the dizzy, maybe that is why the tach needs a much longer pulse to work. Its worth a try and if it doesn't work. I can just resale the dash.
Thanks for the the heads up on the different type of settings, % verses ms and where used that helps to know on the tuning, still reading again the tuning stuff.
I still have the section "grayed out" in the warmup wizard, I don't have any numbers in the cranking pulsewidth or the AS pulse width area the top right on that window, warmup wizard? Strange, could this pedend on which type of idle control I have, warmup or closed loop?
thanks again and have a great vacation, later wd
Thats what I am thinking too, that I just wewnt into an untuned area on the table. When you run the logs for the viewer, how much authority do you have your O2 set for? I had read on the DIYAutoTune site that is should be low like 10% so you would get a lot of switch points, is that about right?
When you say hires code, are you talking about the MSII code? You said that "ms2 has x-tau", what is x-tau? Is it a type of blended fuel cal?
thats for the info on your car's year, I think I am going to try installing an earlier year tach into my 91's dash, the older cars spark system used individual componets where my 91 had everything in the dizzy, maybe that is why the tach needs a much longer pulse to work. Its worth a try and if it doesn't work. I can just resale the dash.
Thanks for the the heads up on the different type of settings, % verses ms and where used that helps to know on the tuning, still reading again the tuning stuff.
I still have the section "grayed out" in the warmup wizard, I don't have any numbers in the cranking pulsewidth or the AS pulse width area the top right on that window, warmup wizard? Strange, could this pedend on which type of idle control I have, warmup or closed loop?
thanks again and have a great vacation, later wd
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muythaibxr
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wrenchdad wrote:Ken
Thats what I am thinking too, that I just wewnt into an untuned area on the table. When you run the logs for the viewer, how much authority do you have your O2 set for? I had read on the DIYAutoTune site that is should be low like 10% so you would get a lot of switch points, is that about right?
I have mine set to 15%
I'm not using MS2 yet, I'll do that when I come back from vacation. There is a hires msns-extra code that gives you microsecond fuel resolution by getting rid of the PWM functionality from the injector channels and using those timers to do high resolution fueling instead.... That's the code I'm using now, but I never got around to porting my multi-table hybrid alpha-n code to it. I might do that, or I might just fix up my wiring to get rid of the noise issues I'm having, and port my multi-table code to ms2/extra. It's more likely that I'll port it to the ms2 than it is that I'll port it to msns-extra hires.When you say hires code, are you talking about the MSII code? You said that "ms2 has x-tau", what is x-tau? Is it a type of blended fuel cal?
X-tau is a new acceleration enrichment scheme/method/algorithm that is in the ms2 code right now. When tuned right, it does a much better job with accel than any of the other methods.. In fact, most OEMs use this method now.
Those numbers are grayed out because you're not supposed to be setting them there... the cranking pulse width is now in another menu: "cranking settings" I believe it's called...I still have the section "grayed out" in the warmup wizard, I don't have any numbers in the cranking pulsewidth or the AS pulse width area the top right on that window, warmup wizard? Strange, could this pedend on which type of idle control I have, warmup or closed loop?
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wrenchdad
- Master MS/Extra'er
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Ken
Thanks, I have mine set to 10% and I guess I will just leave it there for now. I am having to do my logs in pieces because my laptop doesn't have enough memory to laod a whole hour of driving time.
Question, can I do a tune with each part of the the same drive seeing I have broken it up into about four logs? I am trying to use like low cruising speed to get some of the bins and then a different log running at a higher cruise speed to get different bins. Would this be a good method to get the most out of a single drive home/work?
That MSII-Extra code sounds like it would be the way to go, that way the newer processor would be supported for any future changes/upgrades. But that would, of course, be your call, I can't figure out the software programing side of things down to that level anyway and I guess to old to learn, HA! (48 in a few days)
thanks again for your help, later wd
Thanks, I have mine set to 10% and I guess I will just leave it there for now. I am having to do my logs in pieces because my laptop doesn't have enough memory to laod a whole hour of driving time.
Question, can I do a tune with each part of the the same drive seeing I have broken it up into about four logs? I am trying to use like low cruising speed to get some of the bins and then a different log running at a higher cruise speed to get different bins. Would this be a good method to get the most out of a single drive home/work?
That MSII-Extra code sounds like it would be the way to go, that way the newer processor would be supported for any future changes/upgrades. But that would, of course, be your call, I can't figure out the software programing side of things down to that level anyway and I guess to old to learn, HA! (48 in a few days)
thanks again for your help, later wd
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muythaibxr
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I think as long as you get all 4 logs in and analyzed it should be fine...wrenchdad wrote:Ken
Thanks, I have mine set to 10% and I guess I will just leave it there for now. I am having to do my logs in pieces because my laptop doesn't have enough memory to laod a whole hour of driving time.
Question, can I do a tune with each part of the the same drive seeing I have broken it up into about four logs? I am trying to use like low cruising speed to get some of the bins and then a different log running at a higher cruise speed to get different bins. Would this be a good method to get the most out of a single drive home/work?
That MSII-Extra code sounds like it would be the way to go, that way the newer processor would be supported for any future changes/upgrades. But that would, of course, be your call, I can't figure out the software programing side of things down to that level anyway and I guess to old to learn, HA! (48 in a few days)
thanks again for your help, later wd
Happy birthday! (I'm a bit younger at 26
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wrenchdad
- Master MS/Extra'er
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Ken,
Thanks for the happy B-day and I will keep on running all the logs thru the viewer, it does do a good job, this last time it appears that it may have leaned it out too much by the numbers in a couple of bins but I haven't ran the car with it yet. Someone at work wanted to test drive my 99 Corolla that I am selling and I drove it in this morning but tomorrow I will be in the 91, I will find out then and make adjustments.
Still reading the Tuning stuff, I had read it some before but not all the way thru and it helps to have the car running to see what happens when you change something.
I still think I need to work on my idle settings, not seeing my fast idle speed, just the hot setting of 1K as the car warms up, I will have to try some changes, I had move one of them down from 50 to 40 and that gave me my present idle of 1K, I forget what it was call right now and don't have my laptop with me to look it up, but I remember that there is three settings for like high, normal and off, (I think) and I remember that the high is set to about ~70 so it maybe too high for the valve to work correctly and of course the motor warms up so fast right now that it has not been a big issue but I need to get it working right before colder weather.
More logging tomorrow, I will look at the connections on my CLT before then, I have some stuff that you can put on connections that makes for better electrical contact. I will probably put some of that on it after I clean the stabs on the sensor, see if that stops those small 3 degree spikes I am seeing on the CLT line in the logs. Doesn't happen very much but is there and could get to the point were the spikes are bigger or quit reading and throw the MS back into warmup mode.
Have a great and safe vacation, later wd
sorry if this double posts, having trouble with my server, wd
Thanks for the happy B-day and I will keep on running all the logs thru the viewer, it does do a good job, this last time it appears that it may have leaned it out too much by the numbers in a couple of bins but I haven't ran the car with it yet. Someone at work wanted to test drive my 99 Corolla that I am selling and I drove it in this morning but tomorrow I will be in the 91, I will find out then and make adjustments.
Still reading the Tuning stuff, I had read it some before but not all the way thru and it helps to have the car running to see what happens when you change something.
I still think I need to work on my idle settings, not seeing my fast idle speed, just the hot setting of 1K as the car warms up, I will have to try some changes, I had move one of them down from 50 to 40 and that gave me my present idle of 1K, I forget what it was call right now and don't have my laptop with me to look it up, but I remember that there is three settings for like high, normal and off, (I think) and I remember that the high is set to about ~70 so it maybe too high for the valve to work correctly and of course the motor warms up so fast right now that it has not been a big issue but I need to get it working right before colder weather.
More logging tomorrow, I will look at the connections on my CLT before then, I have some stuff that you can put on connections that makes for better electrical contact. I will probably put some of that on it after I clean the stabs on the sensor, see if that stops those small 3 degree spikes I am seeing on the CLT line in the logs. Doesn't happen very much but is there and could get to the point were the spikes are bigger or quit reading and throw the MS back into warmup mode.
Have a great and safe vacation, later wd
sorry if this double posts, having trouble with my server, wd
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superchargingmachine
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wrenchdad,
I can post my PWMidle settings but I am not sure if they will be helpful as I'm using a Ford 2 wire valve. What are you using?
If you set the startup time on the bottom of the second screen to maybe 80. Then you can adjust the cranking dc on the first page. Each time you start the car it will go to this value for the startup time. This way you can figure out what dc value you need for say 2000RPM. Wiht my valve I set closed to zero and minimum to something just below idle speed, in my case 10dc.
If your using a Toyota valve let me know how it works. I think this Ford valve is just too big for my 4A.
I can post my PWMidle settings but I am not sure if they will be helpful as I'm using a Ford 2 wire valve. What are you using?
If you set the startup time on the bottom of the second screen to maybe 80. Then you can adjust the cranking dc on the first page. Each time you start the car it will go to this value for the startup time. This way you can figure out what dc value you need for say 2000RPM. Wiht my valve I set closed to zero and minimum to something just below idle speed, in my case 10dc.
If your using a Toyota valve let me know how it works. I think this Ford valve is just too big for my 4A.
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wrenchdad
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superchargingmachine
I am using the stock 4AGE 20V idle air control valve and its a three wire. Factory wiring was 12vdc to the center pin and then a pulse to either side as needed to hold it to the desired opening. But I am just not seeing the high idle rpms.
Are you saying to set it to 80 cycles or 80 seconds? Seconds I am thinking, right? I think mine is set too low and that may be why I am not ever seeing the high idle. I know my normal PWM is set to 40 and my high is set to about 72 or 73 (thats from memory) Min is set to 19.
The car idles fine after it warms up some, right at 950rpm, that was after I fixed a vacuum leak at the ICV, which had me at about 1300rpm for low idle. The valve is pretty small, but takes about a 3/4" hose on it for air.
Thinking about just going with a solenoid on/off for fast idle instead of this PWM valve, I did build the interface board that is supposed to make it work with the single wire out of the MS unit and I do see the settings in Meagtune under the idle stuff effect the idle when I mess with them.
Right now its just not high on my list of things to get working, need to get the VE tables mapped out then I will get back on the idle maybe by that time it will have cooled off, temp wise, so it will be a little easier to get it set. Right now the early mornings here in Mississippi are around 80 degrees so that doesn't give me much to work with.
thanks for the offer, later wd
I am using the stock 4AGE 20V idle air control valve and its a three wire. Factory wiring was 12vdc to the center pin and then a pulse to either side as needed to hold it to the desired opening. But I am just not seeing the high idle rpms.
Are you saying to set it to 80 cycles or 80 seconds? Seconds I am thinking, right? I think mine is set too low and that may be why I am not ever seeing the high idle. I know my normal PWM is set to 40 and my high is set to about 72 or 73 (thats from memory) Min is set to 19.
The car idles fine after it warms up some, right at 950rpm, that was after I fixed a vacuum leak at the ICV, which had me at about 1300rpm for low idle. The valve is pretty small, but takes about a 3/4" hose on it for air.
Thinking about just going with a solenoid on/off for fast idle instead of this PWM valve, I did build the interface board that is supposed to make it work with the single wire out of the MS unit and I do see the settings in Meagtune under the idle stuff effect the idle when I mess with them.
Right now its just not high on my list of things to get working, need to get the VE tables mapped out then I will get back on the idle maybe by that time it will have cooled off, temp wise, so it will be a little easier to get it set. Right now the early mornings here in Mississippi are around 80 degrees so that doesn't give me much to work with.
thanks for the offer, later wd
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superchargingmachine
- Experienced MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 348
- Joined: Tue May 04, 2004 3:46 pm
- Location: Illinois, Central
I would reccomend working on your basic cal before worry about PWMidle. My experience is that PWMidle, at least with my valve, is tough to work with until the fuel and spark is dialed in. But, I am starting to suspect there might be something wrong with this valve.
To answer your question:
I found out today that just turning the key to on puts the valve in cranking position. The is the first dc value on the first page. The startup delay(last vlaue on the second page) if set high should keep the engine at the cranking value a little while. So using the 2 you can at least establish what value you need in the cranking box. Oh, it also helps to replace cltGauge with idleDCGauge in Msnextra.cfg way down at the bottom of the file. This will let you see the idleDC as it changes.
The solenoid is by far the easiest setup if you can get what you want out of it.
I'm in central IL and it sounds like our weather is similar. I hardly get to look at cold start.
To answer your question:
I found out today that just turning the key to on puts the valve in cranking position. The is the first dc value on the first page. The startup delay(last vlaue on the second page) if set high should keep the engine at the cranking value a little while. So using the 2 you can at least establish what value you need in the cranking box. Oh, it also helps to replace cltGauge with idleDCGauge in Msnextra.cfg way down at the bottom of the file. This will let you see the idleDC as it changes.
The solenoid is by far the easiest setup if you can get what you want out of it.
I'm in central IL and it sounds like our weather is similar. I hardly get to look at cold start.
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wrenchdad
- Master MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 614
- Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:30 am
- Location: Natchez, Mississippi
superchargingmachine
I don't know if our weather is the same or not, our summers 110 degree heat index with 90-95% humity, its HOT !!!
Anyway, thanks for the info on the idle stuff, I looked at my delay and it was set to ......ZERO.......... that could be a problem both of the settings at the bottom of the 2nd page were set to zero, so I changed the closing one to 25 which should be .25 seconds and the other I set to 200 which should give me 2 seconds. Maybe that will set me see if the valve is doing anything.
I also looked at the 1st page, the first one is set to 40 that is for the freq, it was set to 50 but that gave me the 1300 hot idle, 40 gives me about 1K, the cranking one is on ~ 70 and the second is.... I should have wrote them done, senior moment, can't remember but the last is on 19. I will try some different settings this week, I think my tables are about right on the very bottom where the idle is so maybe messing with the idle control setting will help some on crankup.
I am still thinking I need ot work on the cranking pulse and warmup wizard stuff, on cold cranking I still have to baby the gas some to keep it running or it wants to choke out, thinking its still too rich on those settings. Ken help me understanding what the values mean and that helps to know when you make changes.
Well its getting close to quiting time, time to grab the laptop and load my new msq file from this morning's tune.
later wd
I don't know if our weather is the same or not, our summers 110 degree heat index with 90-95% humity, its HOT !!!
Anyway, thanks for the info on the idle stuff, I looked at my delay and it was set to ......ZERO.......... that could be a problem both of the settings at the bottom of the 2nd page were set to zero, so I changed the closing one to 25 which should be .25 seconds and the other I set to 200 which should give me 2 seconds. Maybe that will set me see if the valve is doing anything.
I also looked at the 1st page, the first one is set to 40 that is for the freq, it was set to 50 but that gave me the 1300 hot idle, 40 gives me about 1K, the cranking one is on ~ 70 and the second is.... I should have wrote them done, senior moment, can't remember but the last is on 19. I will try some different settings this week, I think my tables are about right on the very bottom where the idle is so maybe messing with the idle control setting will help some on crankup.
I am still thinking I need ot work on the cranking pulse and warmup wizard stuff, on cold cranking I still have to baby the gas some to keep it running or it wants to choke out, thinking its still too rich on those settings. Ken help me understanding what the values mean and that helps to know when you make changes.
Well its getting close to quiting time, time to grab the laptop and load my new msq file from this morning's tune.
later wd
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muythaibxr
- Site Admin
- Posts: 8230
- Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:48 pm
I'm actually using warmup only right now. I haven't had a chance to mess with the closed-loop idle settings. Warmup only works fine for me though.
At some point I'm just going to post my whole msq (the hires one), so you can see what I've got now. I want to work on the accel a little more before posting, then that'll probably be the last msq I post before moving to ms2/extra.
At some point I'm just going to post my whole msq (the hires one), so you can see what I've got now. I want to work on the accel a little more before posting, then that'll probably be the last msq I post before moving to ms2/extra.
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wrenchdad
- Master MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 614
- Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:30 am
- Location: Natchez, Mississippi
Ken,
I have been running my logs thru the viewer but I am not liking the response that I am getting back. It appears that the viewer is making too large of adjustments, then after I load the new VE flies when I drive the car I am getting too lean follow by too rich. I ran yesterday's morning log thru the viewer and load the file for the drive home, I didn't make it out of the parking lot before I had to pull over and load the old file back into the MS, I was running way too lean and the car was bucking in first gear enough to rattle my teeth.
SO last night, I did some manual fuel table changes on paper then ran the viewer to see what it would come up with and compared the two. It agreed in most of the areas but there were a few that it went the rich when I went lean. So in those bins I cut its correction in half, maybe its just that I am so far out rich that its over correcting to the lean side?
Anyway, its getting better, at least on the low end of things.
Let me run this by you, thinking about changing the Kpa scale. I know that will mess the tune up, but you know that these ITB motors run mostly in the 80-90s crusing, just thinking that maybe I could try say, from about 90 to 96 taking it in ONE Kpa steps, right now I have it in TWO steps, just thinking it might make it smoother and let it have better control. It seems that on the lower end that the engine is just quickly passing thru those Kpa readings, probably could make 20 kpa jumps on the lower end of things.
thoughts?
I am seeing the first start idle go up to about 1600-1700 on cold starts and then on hot starts goes to about 1400-1500 for the time delay I have in the MS, 255, the max. I may back that down now that I have seen it respond. I also lower the cranking dc down to 55.
I also don't like the way my exhaust sounds, too much like a angry bee, thinking about putting a expansion ( 3" ) pipe in the main 2 1/4" pipe where is it straight before it makes that S turn, probably about two or three feet to see it that will mellow the tone out some. Maybe it would also help with the exhaust vibration that I am getting at certain speeds, I mean the whole system is hanging by the stock rubber hangers so I am thinking that its the freq of the sound that is making it vibrate. I don't want it to be real loud that is why I have a stock type of muffler, just larger, but its the pitch that I don't like. Of course, changing anything on the exhaust will probably effect the tune somewhat, maybe not too much but some.
Well, have a great vacation, later wd
I have been running my logs thru the viewer but I am not liking the response that I am getting back. It appears that the viewer is making too large of adjustments, then after I load the new VE flies when I drive the car I am getting too lean follow by too rich. I ran yesterday's morning log thru the viewer and load the file for the drive home, I didn't make it out of the parking lot before I had to pull over and load the old file back into the MS, I was running way too lean and the car was bucking in first gear enough to rattle my teeth.
SO last night, I did some manual fuel table changes on paper then ran the viewer to see what it would come up with and compared the two. It agreed in most of the areas but there were a few that it went the rich when I went lean. So in those bins I cut its correction in half, maybe its just that I am so far out rich that its over correcting to the lean side?
Anyway, its getting better, at least on the low end of things.
Let me run this by you, thinking about changing the Kpa scale. I know that will mess the tune up, but you know that these ITB motors run mostly in the 80-90s crusing, just thinking that maybe I could try say, from about 90 to 96 taking it in ONE Kpa steps, right now I have it in TWO steps, just thinking it might make it smoother and let it have better control. It seems that on the lower end that the engine is just quickly passing thru those Kpa readings, probably could make 20 kpa jumps on the lower end of things.
thoughts?
I am seeing the first start idle go up to about 1600-1700 on cold starts and then on hot starts goes to about 1400-1500 for the time delay I have in the MS, 255, the max. I may back that down now that I have seen it respond. I also lower the cranking dc down to 55.
I also don't like the way my exhaust sounds, too much like a angry bee, thinking about putting a expansion ( 3" ) pipe in the main 2 1/4" pipe where is it straight before it makes that S turn, probably about two or three feet to see it that will mellow the tone out some. Maybe it would also help with the exhaust vibration that I am getting at certain speeds, I mean the whole system is hanging by the stock rubber hangers so I am thinking that its the freq of the sound that is making it vibrate. I don't want it to be real loud that is why I have a stock type of muffler, just larger, but its the pitch that I don't like. Of course, changing anything on the exhaust will probably effect the tune somewhat, maybe not too much but some.
Well, have a great vacation, later wd