Another possible 29q2 bug?

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hobieboy
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Another possible 29q2 bug?

Post by hobieboy »

Still trying to start my car & make her idle so was playing with ASE setting.

If I set it to 60 seconds then what I found from the log file is that ASE and Warmup (engine codes) would only last ~1.5 second. The Gwarm however shows that after that 1.5 second, WUE is still in effect and correct (based upon current CLT) but ASE is gone.

If I set it to 200 cycles, the engine code shows ASE & WUE lasts ~3 second (@ 700 RPM that seems correct). Then engine code becomes 1 (Run) though Gwarm still shows the correct enrichment.

So, does it mean that ASE in seconds doesn't work properly? And why does the engine code shows 1 instead of 5 after the initial ASE period?

thanks.
jsmcortina
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Post by jsmcortina »

Could you post your MSQ and the datalog.
I tried this on the stim and the ASE period is following the time in seconds ok.

James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

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fiat132t
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Post by fiat132t »

i ran into the same problem too.....
MS-I,MSnS-E,v2.2,29q2
hobieboy
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Post by hobieboy »

James,

Here's one of the logs & my msq. Hope it will also shed some lights why the car won't idle :?

Note that I have been playing around with ASE, WUE & VE table settings all day yesterday so the actual % may not be 100% same as log file.
jsmcortina
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Re: Another possible 29q2 bug?

Post by jsmcortina »

hobieboy wrote:Still trying to start my car & make her idle so was playing with ASE setting.

If I set it to 60 seconds then what I found from the log file is that ASE and Warmup (engine codes) would only last ~1.5 second. The Gwarm however shows that after that 1.5 second, WUE is still in effect and correct (based upon current CLT) but ASE is gone.
I loaded your MSQ into my Megasquirt on the stim and brought the rpm from zero to crank to run (600rpm) and the WARMUP and AFTERSTART indicators show on the Realtime screen as you would expect, the AFTERSTART goes off after (what looks like) the programmed 60 seconds and the pulsewidth decays during that time.

Everything looks fine to me.

You don't get any ASE in that log because the engine is warmed up already (70degC) - this is normal behaviour.

Your wiring to the coolant sensor is not ideal - during cranking the temperature shows lower. This indicates a voltage drop in the ground lead (earth strap.) Grounding your Megasquirt to the engine block instead of the chassis will usually resolve this.

James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
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hobieboy
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Re: Another possible 29q2 bug?

Post by hobieboy »

jsmcortina wrote:
You don't get any ASE in that log because the engine is warmed up already (70degC) - this is normal behaviour.

Your wiring to the coolant sensor is not ideal - during cranking the temperature shows lower. This indicates a voltage drop in the ground lead (earth strap.) Grounding your Megasquirt to the engine block instead of the chassis will usually resolve this.

James
James, the temperatures are in degF.
Another weird point for me is: the Gammae shows correct WUE% without reflecting that in the engine code.

Re: coolant sensor wiring - yes, will look into that tonight. I think that might also contribute to the 1 MS reset as soon as the engine catches?

Other than this - did you see any problem/issue why the engine would just die by itself after running for that ~50 seconds?
jsmcortina
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Post by jsmcortina »

From the datalog it is hard to tell what caused what. It looks like it might have gone really weak when the ASE ended. If that is the case then richen up your VE table around that point.
However, there is also a reset and zero rpm all around the same time making it hard to tell which event came first.

Resets will always cause problems and must be eliminated.

James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

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hobieboy
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Post by hobieboy »

jsmcortina wrote:From the datalog it is hard to tell what caused what. It looks like it might have gone really weak when the ASE ended. If that is the case then richen up your VE table around that point.

James
Probably a Megatune forum question - but how do one tell the engine gone weak? Tuning basics that I really don't know/understand :oops:

For example - how do I tell need to richen up vs lean (without the O2 meter during start up)?
hobieboy
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Post by hobieboy »

James,

Have fixed my reset problem now :D but the "ASE bug" is still there.
Here's the datalog that I captured today - able to start & idle the car for the 1st ever time :D

If you look starting at about 32 second (that's the 2nd crank attempt), you'll see that ASE only activates for ~0.5 seconds, then re-kick in for ~0.7 seconds, then finally re-kick in for the 3rd time and lasted about 7 seconds.

All this time CLT is between 79F & 80F and MAP is fluctuating trying to stay alive.

My config is: 20%-25%-20% ASE for 60F-80F-100F, 60 seconds and WUE of 110-115-120 for same temp range. The config did not change during runtime.

Any idea why ASE is like this?

thanks.
jsmcortina
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Post by jsmcortina »

OK, now I do see something weird looking at the Gwarm (WUE+ASE)column.
Try using the normal ASE decay setting instead of fixed then decay?

Your throttle position sensor isn't connected or you didn't touch the pedal.

If the engine won't keep running when you press or modulate the throttle I would be inclined to think that you VE table is at fault too. Have you increased the VE table to give you more fuel like I suggested?

The ASE issue needs investigating, but is more of a "niceness" issue than 100% necessary. You don't have it with a carb.

James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
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newtyres1
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Post by newtyres1 »

hobieboy wrote:how do I tell need to richen up vs lean (without the O2 meter during start up)?
Connect the WB 02 to another independent battery or power supply, wait the 15 or 20 seconds or whatever until the display comes up, then start the engine.

Ian.
hobieboy
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Post by hobieboy »

jsmcortina wrote:OK, now I do see something weird looking at the Gwarm (WUE+ASE)column.
Try using the normal ASE decay setting instead of fixed then decay?

Your throttle position sensor isn't connected or you didn't touch the pedal.

If the engine won't keep running when you press or modulate the throttle I would be inclined to think that you VE table is at fault too. Have you increased the VE table to give you more fuel like I suggested?

The ASE issue needs investigating, but is more of a "niceness" issue than 100% necessary. You don't have it with a carb.

James
Not sure where my comments were :?

ok - will try ASE decay only tonight. And TPS was 0 because I didn't touch the pedal.

She can finally start & idle by herself without using any throttle now :D The issue seems to be a bad coil - I removed the suspect coil & connected those wires to the 2nd output of my good coil (based on spark plug reading) and she fired right up. Will bench test the bad coil tonight.
hobieboy
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Post by hobieboy »

newtyres1 wrote: Connect the WB 02 to another independent battery or power supply, wait the 15 or 20 seconds or whatever until the display comes up, then start the engine.

Ian.
Ian, my issue "was" the engine would die before the WBO2 sensor is warmed up and LM-1 suggests to NOT have power to it during cranking.

At least now I can get her to start & idle. And was using that to tune my VE a bit last night.

Thanks for the suggestion though...
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Post by jsmcortina »

hobieboy wrote:And TPS was 0 because I didn't touch the pedal.
Try pressing it.

James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

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hobieboy
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Post by hobieboy »

jsmcortina wrote: Try pressing it.

James
I did - very late in this particular run; also recorded in the log. RPM/MAP goes up as expected.

Didn't try that during cranking as I wasn't sure if I was flooding the engine or ??? Will try that tonight. But then, I suspect if ASE stays on for ~10 sec, I don't need to touch the pedal to get her started & start the warm up process "normally".
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