Fuel pump relay not grounding....

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Fuel pump relay not grounding....

Postby andy198712 » Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:18 am

Hi,

i've on MS1 2.2 extra, currently running my ignition only via EDIS on a 1972 1200 beetle.... runs amazing.

But i stil have my fuel pump running off an ignition live which isnt ideal. and as i intend to step up to fuel injection also when i build a bigger engine i want to be able to run my fuel pump off MS as it should....

my setup is:

12v feed from battery to the main relay, which is energised via an ignition live and that feeds my ECU, coil and EDIS, and also feeds power to my Fuel pump relay, and it sends voltage across (checked with test lamp)
the fuel pump relay is hooked up to my ECU to pin 37 for the ground, but it isnt grounding it..... if i put a jumper ground in to test the relay works fine.

in Tuner Studio it's saying the fuel pump is on in the bottom left hand corner of the screen..... but it isnt.

i tried upping the prime setting ect but still nothing.

where to start?

i've searched and seen a couple people mention swapping Q3 and D7 when they have intermittent issues... which i could try, anything else this sounds like?

i did wonder if the ECU wanted to be hooked up to all the injection stuff but i doubt that now and seeing as TS says my fuel pump is on....

Any help would be great, i dont have a stim and its my daily so sending it off for testing is tricky. i've only done the mods to the board to run EDIS.

Thanks

Andy
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Re: Fuel pump relay not grounding....

Postby kjones6039 » Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:40 am

Keep in mind that the fuel pump will only run when MS see's a valid tach signal.

Ken

BTW.... A stim is always a good investment IMO...........
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Re: Fuel pump relay not grounding....

Postby andy198712 » Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:58 pm

cheers bud.

i have a tach working in tunerstudio so guessing thats enough? and TS says its on....?

must see that via the pip and saw yh?

thanks :) yeah its on the never ending list :D
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Re: Fuel pump relay not grounding....

Postby kjones6039 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:03 am

Please disregard this post. Just realized we are talking about MS1 here, not MS2! :oops:

My apologies!

Ken
1979 Corvette - 383 CID SBC w/ Holley Pro-Jection 900 CFM TBI, 4-85 lb lo-z injectors & Walbro 255 pump
MS2 v3 w/extra 3.4.2 Release
36-1, Delphi LS2/7 coils in wasted spark, driven by v2.0 logic board from JBPerformance
Spartan Lambda Sensor from 14point7
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Re: Fuel pump relay not grounding....

Postby Matt Cramer » Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:09 am

Try taking out the processor, turning the key on, and jumpering 5 volts to the pin that controls fuel pump output on the U1 socket. Does that make the fuel pump come on?
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Re: Fuel pump relay not grounding....

Postby andy198712 » Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:42 pm

Matt Cramer wrote:Try taking out the processor, turning the key on, and jumpering 5 volts to the pin that controls fuel pump output on the U1 socket. Does that make the fuel pump come on?



sorry in my slow response, where do i take 5V from to jumper? (i'm a bit new to this) an U1 socket, which pin am i looking for or where can i find out?
i've also got a few Q3 transistors so ican swap that too at some point to narrow things down.

sorry for the newbie stuff!

cheers

Andy
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Re: Fuel pump relay not grounding....

Postby SymTech Laboratories » Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:14 pm

andy198712 wrote:sorry in my slow response, where do i take 5V from to jumper? (i'm a bit new to this) an U1 socket, which pin am i looking for or where can i find out?
i've also got a few Q3 transistors so ican swap that too at some point to narrow things down.

sorry for the newbie stuff!

The correct pin is pin 33. With the notch in socket U1 facing toward you, pin 1 is at the bottom-right corner, pin 20 is at the top-right corner, pin 21 is at the top-left corner, and pin 40 is at the bottom-left corner. You can find 5V at pin 8 of JP1.
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Re: Fuel pump relay not grounding....

Postby andy198712 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:26 am

Thank you very much thats very helpful! i'll let you know how i get on
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Re: Fuel pump relay not grounding....

Postby andy198712 » Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:02 am

that didnt work....
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Re: Fuel pump relay not grounding....

Postby andy198712 » Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:55 am

i then replaced the 2N2222A at Q3 and all works as i've programmed now :)

i used a metal case one as thats all i had around but seems to work fine :) thanks guys!
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Re: Fuel pump relay not grounding....

Postby Corysvdub » Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:36 pm

Matt Cramer wrote:Try taking out the processor, turning the key on, and jumpering 5 volts to the pin that controls fuel pump output on the U1 socket. Does that make the fuel pump come on?


Where would someone check after they've done this test and received no results?
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Re: Fuel pump relay not grounding....

Postby Corysvdub » Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:39 pm

How does Q3 solve the problem when it isn't part of the fuel pump driver?...
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Re: Fuel pump relay not grounding....

Postby jsmcortina » Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:50 am

Corysvdub wrote:How does Q3 solve the problem when it isn't part of the fuel pump driver?...

It is on the old V2.2 mainboard.

James
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Re: Fuel pump relay not grounding....

Postby DaveEFI » Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:58 am

Corysvdub wrote:
Matt Cramer wrote:Try taking out the processor, turning the key on, and jumpering 5 volts to the pin that controls fuel pump output on the U1 socket. Does that make the fuel pump come on?


Where would someone check after they've done this test and received no results?


What that does is check the pump relay driver circuit works. If not, you need to fault find that.
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Re: Fuel pump relay not grounding....

Postby Corysvdub » Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:48 am

Ok, so I'm going to have to start looking in the D4, Q2, Q19, R16, R40 FP circuit then right? The thing that throws me off is that pin 33 has a signal upon power up, but shuts off the minute I apply rpms to the stim.
MS1 V. 3.0 Not assigned to a motor
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Re: Fuel pump relay not grounding....

Postby DaveEFI » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:18 am

Corysvdub wrote:Ok, so I'm going to have to start looking in the D4, Q2, Q19, R16, R40 FP circuit then right? The thing that throws me off is that pin 33 has a signal upon power up, but shuts off the minute I apply rpms to the stim.


Testing the fuel pump replay driver circuit only is done by removing the processor chip. RPM or not can make no difference to pin 33 with no chip plugged in. If the relay makes when you apply 5v to pin 33 and breaks when you remove it, the driver circuit is functioning. If it doesn't, the most likely failure is Q2 (V3 board)
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Re: Fuel pump relay not grounding....

Postby Corysvdub » Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:50 pm

Sorry forgot to mention that was with the processor still installed.
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Re: Fuel pump relay not grounding....

Postby Corysvdub » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:06 pm

Well, replaced Q2! Now the fuel pump works! :yeah!: Thanks!

Only problem now is it stays on without an rpm signal. As long as power is on, the pump is running.
MS1 V. 3.0 Not assigned to a motor
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MS2 V. 3.57 Startup Stand W/ 1800cc Turbo VW
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Re: Fuel pump relay not grounding....

Postby DaveEFI » Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:40 am

Corysvdub wrote:Well, replaced Q2! Now the fuel pump works! :yeah!: Thanks!

Only problem now is it stays on without an rpm signal. As long as power is on, the pump is running.


Does it do this the the processor unplugged?
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Re: Fuel pump relay not grounding....

Postby Corysvdub » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:37 am

DaveEFI wrote:
Corysvdub wrote:Well, replaced Q2! Now the fuel pump works! :yeah!: Thanks!

Only problem now is it stays on without an rpm signal. As long as power is on, the pump is running.


Does it do this the the processor unplugged?


It stays on with the processor plugged in. Sorry for not mentioning that.
MS1 V. 3.0 Not assigned to a motor
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MS2 V. 3.57 Startup Stand W/ 1800cc Turbo VW
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