(GONE!)Spark dropout under load(DATALOG AND TUNE INCLUDED)

WillExoIX · Post by **WillExoIX** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:54 pm

MS1 V3.3 board running the latest MSNS firmware.
Using GM HEI ignition circuit on a 2.8L V6 camaro 1989 with a 700R4.
Let me know if you need more information.

I'm getting spark cutout, First started out primarily in first gear, Then I shielded the white wire running to the dizzy, and connected the shield to ground at the dizzy. Now the cutout occurs primarily in 3rd gear. I cannot replicate under no load(park or neutral) at any rpm.

Upon disconnecting the bypass wire(5V ref wire to allow MS to take control of timing), which reverts the car to base timing, the problem goes away completely. I can't even replicate it with the bypass disconnected.

Dave(project89) said he may have to tweak the dwell settings but the way he tweaked them it didnt work. Im thinking the dwell when running may be too high? I haven't learned enough to know exactly what anything does so I'm looking for some input so I can understand it.

I'm including a datalog, and the msq I am currently running. Thanks for any input/info.

WillExoIX · Post by **WillExoIX** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:29 pm

For those having similar problems, here was the solution for mine.

I increased the dwell time on the running field to 3.1 from 2.5. Spark dropouts are non-exsistant for now, I ran it through every gear but 4th, just about to redline and could not get spark to drop at all.

If it comes back I will update this thread.

WillExoIX · Post by **WillExoIX** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:40 pm

Hmm, interestingly enough its back, but with more symptoms. Now my digital boost gauge is turning off, at the same time the tach needle jumps around, all happening when the cutouts start any higher than 1/2 pedal in any gear.

Could it be that the coil is bad? It almost sounds like an electrical short, but its isolated to the boost gauge, which is completely separated from the tach, but both are wigging out. My AEM WidebandO2 is on the same power and ground as the boost gauge, but the WBO2 is unaffected.

Any ideas? I'll enclose another short datalog, though I am unsure whether or not you can see it in the log.

The MSQ has different dwell settings that is burned to the controller, so dont pay attention to the dwell settings, they are set as follows;
Dwell Control
Cranking - 4.0
Running - 3.1
Min Discharge - 0.1

WillExoIX · Post by **WillExoIX** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:58 pm

Same thing happens as last time when I unplug the bypass wire, it runs like a dream. I have absolutely no issues driving it at base timing without MS controlling it.

WillExoIX · Post by **WillExoIX** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:28 pm

Test #1 was infinite
Test #2 was .9 Ohms
Test #3 was 3.4 Meg Ohms

Matt Cramer · Post by **Matt Cramer** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:31 am

I'm thinking it could be a faulty ignition module.

ashford · Post by **ashford** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:26 am

i had a very similar issue with an ls motor, but was causing resets too. i found the coil had a crack in it and was arcing to the signal wire to the ms. it took a completely dark environment to find it.

WillExoIX · Post by **WillExoIX** » Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:57 am

I am getting resets as well, they just aren't as frequent now as they were before I shielded the rest of the white wire running to the dizzy from the MS1. I bet that would most likely be the source of noise in the datalogs too.

I'm just waiting on my taxes until I can pick up a new coil and icm. I'll report back once they are in. Thanks

WillExoIX · Post by **WillExoIX** » Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:06 pm

Got a new icm and coil in and now it wont start. Makes the boost gauge turn off as soon as I turn the key, also causing lots of resets. It resets the MS everytime I turn the key. Also I swear I hear the snapping sound you get from an arcing plug wire, But it wont run but just a fraction of a second. So New Coil+New ICM=Bad wires.

I ordered plug wires, Because they are old, and its the only thing in this area that I didnt replace. Hopefully by wednesday-friday Ill have an update.

WillExoIX · Post by **WillExoIX** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:40 pm

Well I wound up buying a new distributor, misfire is gone, still some resets, not nearly as many as before. Also still glitches/cutouts, really the only two things Im left chasing down. Noise looks a whole lot better just not completely gone.

Here is a datalog of me just cruising and tuning VE for cruise. Mind you I am running 36lb bosch3s on a just over stock 2.8L 60*v6. Just swapping the stock ECM out to the MS1 freed up a bunch of horsepower and its still NA. I'm trying to nail down an NA tune before attempting a boost tune, So my turbo install will be likely within the next couple weekends.

The flatline in the middle of the log is where I stopped to get gas.

WillExoIX · Post by **WillExoIX** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:08 pm

I have been messing with the running dwell settings, Since I have swapped in a new MSD streetfire coil, new ACDelco 8mm plug wires, and a brand new distributor.

I read that a running dwell too high or low will present a misfire, I still have a slight misfire at a running dwell of 2.5mS, tried going up in .1mS intervals and it got a little worse, so I am betting I can bring it down hopefully to 2.0mS being its a brand new coil and that might just do away with the misfire.

With the minimum discharge dwell setting at .1mS, can that be upped a little bit and maybe have something to do with the random miss being so low? What exactly is the minimum discharge dwell setting for?

Worth noting too, the misfire never happens during a reset, although I am still hunting down the source of the resets.

arnold · Post by **arnold** » Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:48 pm

check you power supply very carefully

WillExoIX · Post by **WillExoIX** » Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:00 pm

what exactly am I checking?

I had the board out today while I re-did my grounds and map line, and the board still looks pristine, exactly as I assembled it with no signs of heat anywhere, No crossed solder joints, it all looks clean.

Ive got all electronics testing equipment short of an O-scope and a few other things, and know electronics.

Here is a few datalogs from today, the second datalog I was tuning VE, And a copy of current tune.

slow_hemi6 · Post by **slow_hemi6** » Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:15 pm

WillExoIX wrote: With the minimum discharge dwell setting at .1mS, can that be upped a little bit and maybe have something to do with the random miss being so low? What exactly is the minimum discharge dwell setting for?

There is only a certain amount of time between firing a coil for one cylinder and then the next. As revs increase this time decreases. it can get quite problematic on a 8 or more cylinder engine, to fit the dwell time and the time it takes for the spark to occur in,on single coil applications. When there is not enough time, the ecu has to start reducing dwell as you can't reduce the spark time. When and how much to reduce dwell is dependent on the spark time. Ms calls the time taken to spark "minimum discharge period", note not "dwell", because this is the time it takes for the coil to discharge it's energy. MSD actually gives specs for their gear. My Blaster3 coil had a discharge of .385 if I remember correctly.

arnold · Post by **arnold** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:47 pm

WillExoIX wrote:what exactly am I checking?

The power line for the MS. I had a wacky fuse confusing hesistation when warmed up

WillExoIX · Post by **WillExoIX** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:51 pm

Well I have tried powering it directly from the battery with no change. Its got a new battery, under 1000 mile alternator, all grounds good. Right now its getting switched 12v through an extra unused fuse in the panel, with the same issue. I even tried a Boss stereo noise suppressor and it didn't make a difference at all. I am beginning to think it isn't noise, but at this point I have no idea what the heck is going on.

slow_hemi6 · Post by **slow_hemi6** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:24 pm

Have you had a look at your rotor Phasing?

WillExoIX · Post by **WillExoIX** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:30 pm

Hmmm, I just read up on rotor phasing. My car is set to factory 10* BTDC with a brand new dizzy, However the problem even existed before I changed the dizzy. However, AFAIK there is really no way to change the rotor phasing on my car without changing the base timing. Also seems like a rotor phasing issue because if I run the car with the bypass unplugged(without MS controlling timing), It runs perfect with no resets or dropouts, when its plugged in it resets and drops.

Besides wouldnt rotor phasing cause it to be missing all the time?

slow_hemi6 · Post by **slow_hemi6** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:53 pm

Nope, it will be fine if at low advance, the path of least resistance is still the relevant cap tower. It is when advance starts to crank up and the spark finds other paths easier to discharge to than jump the increased distance to the cap tower.

WillExoIX · Post by **WillExoIX** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:33 am

Would that mean that the MS1 is advancing timing too far when the bypass is plugged in? Thats kinda how it sounds to me, as if the timing is so far advanced the spark is jumping to the next tower. Cause if Im running at base timing, aside from the limp advance, the rotor phasing would more or less stay the same. Would I be able to set the base timing to *12 or *8 btdc to see if it makes a difference? But does the MS keep base timing in mind, or does it have to be set to proper base timing?

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(GONE!)Spark dropout under load(DATALOG AND TUNE INCLUDED)

(GONE!)Spark dropout under load(DATALOG AND TUNE INCLUDED)

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