Turbo 2.8 tuning with logs and tune(need help with tuning)

[Matt Cramer]

I'm only seeing a 10 degree rise in MAT readings, and the engine stays in cranking mode where MAT correction is not applied. I think you need to adjust the cranking pulse width at that temperature.

[WillExoIX]

I'm only seeing a 10 degree rise in MAT readings, and the engine stays in cranking mode where MAT correction is not applied. I think you need to adjust the cranking pulse width at that temperature.

It was also in the shade this time. Normally the rise goes up over 105*, But I also finally made a cover to close the intake filter off from underhood air. Any particular pulse width you would recommend? Higher, lower?

[WillExoIX]

I noticed in the log my cranking PW is 4.1ms, which happens to be close to my running PW; around 3.8~4.2ms. So I would assume I need to go up with the cranking PW to keep the motor from going so lean then? I will bump it up around 5ms and see what happens.

I know the battery died before I could get it to start while hot, But whats up with the cranking timing being at 0.9*? That doesn't seem right to me. Should that be say 10* instead?

Also when it did start, the AFR was over 15, where it normally was around 14.5, and I had to keep it at 2000 rpms to keep it from stalling. Is that an issue with being heatsoaked? It seems like something was off big time cause it wasn't normally like that before; I usually had to tap the pedal a few times to keep it running on a hot start but never had to hold it at 2000rpms for 30 seconds.

Any thoughts?

[Matt Cramer]

As a general rule, if you need more throttle to get it started, you need less cranking pulse width. If more throttle does not help, you probably need less.

[WillExoIX]

As a general rule, if you need more throttle to get it started, you need less cranking pulse width. If more throttle does not help, you probably need less.

See thats what is confusing. It will start without any pedal/throttle just fine; Its right after it starts when it stumbles and leans out and requires throttle to keep it running. Cold start only takes a slight tap of the pedal to keep it from going lean. Hot start it takes holding the rpms up to keep it running.

Apparently going from megatune to tunerstudio, required going back over some settings, because the switch caused afterstart enrichment to be turned off. Also priming pulse was set to table instead of fixed. I switched priming pulse to fixed at 5ms, and turned afterstart enrichment back on with a 25% value to start.

However once started I discovered a pretty good oil leak coming from my oil feed line. Oil leaks are the devil in this turbo install; fix one and another pops up. I need to pick up some hardline for the oil feed then I will have some more updates, for now, here is the log and tune from that last start where I had the oil leak. I'm sure most of it is in warmup.

[WillExoIX]

Been a little bit guys. So oil leaks are fixed, Got my license back, and finally driving the car again.

I have been running VEAL for the past couple rides, and its doing a pretty good job so far. I noticed at the end of this log when I pulled into the driveway that the vband gasket on the turbo to DP Vband burned another gasket. Its such a slight leak but the exhaust is HOT so it burns the gasket up. Ordering up a sheet of Remflex gasket material for that, worked wonders on the turbo headers and collectors.

So this log will probably show a big exhaust leak. right infront of the WBO2 sensor.

Couple questions. What are your thoughts on the log? Any learned tips or tricks for VEAL? I didn't get a log of starting, but I have played with the priming pw, warmup enrichment and afterstart enrichment, but it still goes lean and falls on its face and stalls every first start. Unless I tap the gas a couple times to keep it from stalling, then after about 15 seconds I can slowly let off the gas and it will pick up the idle on its own.

Also, it was F-IN HOT OUT! So this log is about the hottest most humid day of the year in FL. Also need to fab a detachable scoop for the TMIC, fan only works at idle.

[Matt Cramer]

The biggest tip I can offer for VE Analyzer Live is to fix any and all exhaust leaks before you use it.

[WillExoIX]

The biggest tip I can offer for VE Analyzer Live is to fix any and all exhaust leaks before you use it.

Yea thats why I am fixing that before I take it back out. That is the only leak there is on any of the 3 vbands I put in the exhaust system.
I have Max cell change at 5, and max cell percentage change set to 2.5. Are those decent settings or do you have some recommended settings?

[WillExoIX]

I got the exhaust leak partially fixed, still leaking though so I didnt drive it. Here is a starting and warm up log, first crank stalls as always, second didn't though after I brought the priming pulse up a little. Anything you can see in the log for the stall? Or is it getting better by adding to the priming PW?

[WillExoIX]

So I am going to wind up starting at the beginning again. I did a compression test and discovered that cylinder 6 had no compression. It was zero, no ticks of the needle on the gauge at all, so I know it isn't rings, its the valves. So I get to redo the valve lash adjustment. Once I button all that back up I am going to reload the original VE table, because it will wind up being too lean with the current table. This also explains why it ran so rough, and wouldn't idle worth a d***.

I will update probably by the end of the day if these love bugs haul a$$, there are thousands of them. I seriously need a garage, lol.

Stay tuned for what will hopefully be another MS success story

[WillExoIX]

SWEET! It idles so smooth now, starts on the first try. Its amazing how much of a difference 1 cylinder makes. FYI, 140PSI in every single cylinder at 300,000 miles. Here is a quick log. Also tweaked the turbo to get that leak to seal up.

[WillExoIX]

This car is on fire! Quick as hell and runs great. Went out for a 15-20 mile drive and let VEAL work its magic. Its pretty crazy when you see 36mph on the speedo, nail it and its pushing 110mph in no time. Greatest feeling in the world.

Anyways, here is a good sized log for anyone to take a look at. All seems well now so it should hopefully be trouble free from here on out.

[kjones6039]

This car is on fire! Quick as hell and runs great. Went out for a 15-20 mile drive and let VEAL work its magic. Its pretty crazy when you see 36mph on the speedo, nail it and its pushing 110mph in no time. Greatest feeling in the world.

Nice to see it coming together, but I'm thinking that the racoon is not getting the credit he deserves here!

Ken

[WillExoIX]

This car is on fire! Quick as hell and runs great. Went out for a 15-20 mile drive and let VEAL work its magic. Its pretty crazy when you see 36mph on the speedo, nail it and its pushing 110mph in no time. Greatest feeling in the world.

Nice to see it coming together, but I'm thinking that the racoon is not getting the credit he deserves here!

Ken

LOL. He is the one that told me to check the compression! Along with "I told you so" haha

[WillExoIX]

So all seems well except for the rate of rise of the intake temp. Working on that by finishing a scoop to attach to the vent I made in the hood. Its about 12" in length, opening is about 3" height, towards the back the height is about 1 1/2". Width is about 8 1/2" front and back. The sides of the scoop will taper out a little towards the bottom to try to capture the body lines of the car. It will have 2 fins inside of it to evenly distribute the air across the whole core of the intercooler, instead of the back of the core compared to most TMICs. It will have 4 studs to attach it to the expanded metal grille that covers the opening in the hood.

All in all it should at least hold AITs steady if not bring them down a bit at speed even with it being a smaller core than most people run. Most who had input on this build said to get a FMIC, but I already had the small VW TMIC, plus it was more cost effective charge pipe wise to do it the way that I did. Its a full blown T3 turbo, though I do want to pick up a T3 60 trim wheel and get the compressor housing machined. It has a 45 trim wheel now which is pretty inefficient, but it was a diesel turbo. The 60 trim wheel will put the turbo just shy of 80% efficiency. Better power, cooler charge.

Its nothing but a daily driver, so I didn't want to throw 400hp worth of turbo on it. As it sits, the only thing I have done to the motor is general maintenance and part replacement. At 285,000 Miles I installed the Megasquirt. After that I installed the turbo setup. And here we are.

[WillExoIX]

Now that that is squared away. Even running on all six cylinders, it doesn't want to start worse then when it was running on 5 cylinders!!!

I got a log of starting and tuning. In the log you will probably be able to deduce what needs to be done to smooth out the starting issue. Another thing in the log, What is going on with the rpm spikes? Any common causes for that?

Review of the setup includes all grounds routed properly per the manual, all wiring double, triple, and quadruple checked several times. Everything is wired properly, though another issue that has presented itself is that the aftermarket tach needle goes wacky sometimes. If I tap on the tach, the needle will jump as well, though sometimes it jumps on its own.

Here is the log and tune zipped together.

Thanks in advance.

[WillExoIX]

Primarily I would like some advice on the starting issue. Thanks

[Matt Cramer]

Primarily I would like some advice on the starting issue. Thanks

It's tough using the data logs on a start as the O2 sensor will not be working. Try checking the spark plugs as described in this article:

http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_article ... uning.html

[WillExoIX]

Primarily I would like some advice on the starting issue. Thanks

It's tough using the data logs on a start as the O2 sensor will not be working. Try checking the spark plugs as described in this article:

http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_article ... uning.html

Its an AEM Uego wideband and I always wait until its warmed up before I start so it should be accurate.

[ihateforums]

Its an AEM Uego wideband and I always wait until its warmed up before I start so it should be accurate.

You can still have false readings, in a situation where a misfire dumps unburned air/fuel into the exhaust and is read as lean.

Have you tried a lower cranking pulsewidth? My understanding in that MS1 will do 3 squirts per revolution during cranking on a 6 cylinder. So when you compare the cranking PW to the PW while running, you have to keep in mind that the number of squirts could be different! If you are running only 1 squirt or 2-alternating then I would definitely try a lower PW for cranking.

That 0.9 degrees of cranking advance sounds less than ideal. I'm not sure what your ignition setup is, but I would say double check your settings and maybe verify the spark with a timing light.

Tuning cold starts can be tricky. When the engine first fires, the revs jump up, MAP goes down, fuel in the intake evaporates. Then the opposite happens. Revs start to drop which causes MAP to rise and fuel in the intake to condense. This is when the engine will die if warmup/ASE aren't enough.