Mototron

All Megasquirt 1 support questions. See also the Documentation

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lekman
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Mototron

Post by lekman »

Hello
I'm about to install a Mototron coil to improve my spark in the audi. I'm running an ms1v3 at MSnS.
I have already moved out my BIP 373 to a place close to the coil. Today I have the OEM coil and the BIP on a common bracket, that acts as a heat sink for the BIP.
I suppose its pretty straight forward to swap to the Mototron coil. Since my ms1v3 had a BIP373 from the start I suppose I have the 270 to 330 ohm pullup resistor at the circuit board in the box.?
My issue now is, should I have the inverted spark output or not when substituting the BIP with the Mototron circuit ?
I don't like to risk frying the new coil.

Best Regards/Lars
Matt Cramer
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Re: Mototron

Post by Matt Cramer »

How exactly is your MS1 modified for spark output?
Matt Cramer -1966 Dodge Dart slant six running on MS3X
lekman
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Posts: 164
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:01 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Mototron

Post by lekman »

I have moved the BIP to the bracket of the coil in the engine bay. The electrical circuits are exactly the same but now the BIP is ground at the coil. the long wire from the ECU-box now goes to the B-pin if the BIP, instead of going to the coil.
I was warned that the BIP would get disturbed by the coil, but it works

/Lars
lekman
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Re: Mototron

Post by lekman »

Anybody who knows if I should use inverted or not on the ignition setup for the Mototron? Is that if getting the firing on falling or rising signal?

/Lars
Matt Cramer
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Re: Mototron

Post by Matt Cramer »

I need you to let me know how exactly you have built the spark output circuit before I can answer that question.
Matt Cramer -1966 Dodge Dart slant six running on MS3X
lekman
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Posts: 164
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:01 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Mototron

Post by lekman »

I moved the BIP from the ms board to a location close to the coil. The circuits are the same as before, as far as I get it. The difference is that the line from the ms-box to the coil now is controlling the BIP, instead of the coil, as it was before. The grounding of the BIP is now done at the coil instead of thru the ms-box ground. The electric layout will be the same ( I guess) but with the only difference the physical position of the BIP-circuit.
One jumper on the board where the BIP normally is attached, making the line to the coil to control the BIP instead of the coil itself.

I haven't noticed any difference from the normal solution. I have always suffered from a a bit too weak spark. I now run the stock coil at 4.2 ms dwell. I have s scope, so perhaps I should look at the coils charging?

/Lars
lekman
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Re: Mototron

Post by lekman »

I plan to use the signal for the BIP373, pin B, as it is connected to the BIP inside the ms-box. -to use this signal for the Mototron coil signal input. This is the pin B on the BIP, as it is originally wired in the ms1V3, delivered from the beginning with the BIP-circuit. Can the signal be inverted due to the hardware inside the ms-box?

/Lars
Matt Cramer
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Re: Mototron

Post by Matt Cramer »

You still haven't told us what spark output circuit is currently inside the box, and I have no way of knowing. It is not possible for me to answer your question until you answer mine.
Matt Cramer -1966 Dodge Dart slant six running on MS3X
lekman
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 164
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:01 am
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Re: Mototron

Post by lekman »

Are you referring to the circuits that are controlling the BIP373? then I have not the faintest idea. All I know is that the ms I have was equipped with the BIP373 from the start. an ms1V3
I have to look into the box and try to find out.

/Lars
Matt Cramer
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Re: Mototron

Post by Matt Cramer »

Yes, that's what I am asking about. I need to know what circuit is controlling the BIP373 to answer your question about what settings the circuit should use.
Matt Cramer -1966 Dodge Dart slant six running on MS3X
lekman
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Re: Mototron

Post by lekman »

I will try to look at the spec of my ms.
What I know is though that I haven't changed anything, just prolonged the wire to pin B at the BIP (moved it out of the box). I am using the inverted setting and that works together with the BIP. I can use my amp-meter to make sure that the coil of today doesn't use any power when standing still (with ignition on).
But I start looking at the specs of my ms-version.

/Lars
lekman
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Re: Mototron

Post by lekman »

I feel that Im a bit ignorant here. Now I have measured the load over the coil when having the engine stopped with the ignition on. I then have 12 volts over the coil, 12 volts potential drop over the primary coil. The BIP-circuit is grounding the coil. This cant be as its meant to? Can this be due to that I don't have the BIP into the ms-box but instead have put out at the coil? I don't see how?

/Lars
DeadStiff
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Re: Mototron

Post by DeadStiff »

You'll need to clarify this some. Do you have 12v before(battery side) and after the coil(bip side) with the MS on and engine off? If that is so, it is correct.
MS3+X on 73 Karmann Ghia ignition only with LS2 truck coils firing in sequential, fuel next.
2333(103*70) Type 4 with DTM also sitting in living room just need exhaust.
lekman
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 164
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:01 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Mototron

Post by lekman »

I have 12 volts on the coils battery side but not at the BIP side. Zero volts on one side (BIP) and 12 volts on the other side. This must mean that the coil is being constantly charged with 12 v while standing still?
I tried to measure amps with a clamp amp meter, but got readings like 0.15 - 0.25 A thru the coil. Not much different when running the engine
/Lars
DeadStiff
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Re: Mototron

Post by DeadStiff »

Yes that does sound like the coil is constantly changing. Did you try inverting the the signal for your coil in Tuner Studio? If it is set to going high change it to going low or visa versa.
MS3+X on 73 Karmann Ghia ignition only with LS2 truck coils firing in sequential, fuel next.
2333(103*70) Type 4 with DTM also sitting in living room just need exhaust.
lekman
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 164
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:01 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Mototron

Post by lekman »

I apparently don't understand my own cable routing. The ground I found was on the in-signal at the BIP, pin B. The coil is left un charged, ( I will check that)
I have looked at the in-signal to the BIP (pin B) with my oscilloscope. Its a square, rising over ground with 3.6 - 3.8 volts and with the length of the dwell. This is with an inverted signal (Yes)

/Lars
lekman
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Posts: 164
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Re: Mototron

Post by lekman »

Do I have to change a resistor to increase the height of the signal?, to suit the mototron coil. Is this the right signal for that coil, a rising one from ground, positive signal? I get confused when reading about this, somewhere I read on rising, and other information says when falling.....
/Lars
lekman
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Posts: 164
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:01 am
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Re: Mototron

Post by lekman »

Hello again
Im back to this issue, and have studied some more, but still having some troubles to get it all.
I need to make a logic output signal from my ms1v3. Im about to start using this Mototron coil (the car is resting now for the winter)
The new coil needs a 5 v signal and fires then the 5 v falls to 0. , as far as I understand.
I have found a description involving a 4.7 K resistor that together with a 5 v source and the transistor Q6 should be able to make this signal (I assume that the transistor is grounding when signal is zero) what I aiming to do is to modify the Spark A, since I have a single coil setup.
So when using this logic signal to my new coil I wont be using the BIP373 at all. The new coil has a separate high current circuit itself,

Am I on the right track here?

Best Regards and Merry Christmas/Lars
Matt Cramer
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Re: Mototron

Post by Matt Cramer »

BIP373s cannot be driven through a 4.7K resistor; it needs to be 330 ohms or less.

If you are still not sure how your box is configured internally, please take the main board out of its case and post pictures of the top and bottom of the board.
Matt Cramer -1966 Dodge Dart slant six running on MS3X
lekman
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 164
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:01 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Mototron

Post by lekman »

Matt
I get confused when trying to find my way thru the documentation. But tried to find the info on how to drive a VAG-directcoil, cos somebody suggested that my Mototron should be treated as if it was a VAG.
Can this 4.7 K ohm work if driving a VAG coil. without the BIP373?

I will pull out the circuit board an post some photos. The car is standing still now for the winter.

Best Regards/Lars
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