Mototron

[lekman]

Hello Trying to put in some photos

/Lars

Boardx.jpg

[lekman]

I suppose that my board is a common one?

/Lars

Boardbackx.jpg

Boradback2x.jpg

[lekman]

Boarbback.jpg

[Matt Cramer]

Looks like an MS1 V3.0 with some mods.

In the Q16 slot, are pins 2 and 3 shorted together, or are the three pins not connected? If it's the latter, the board has its spark output completely removed.

[lekman]

I have moved the BIB373 to a location just near the coil (my old stock coil). There are two pins shortened together, just to make it work with the BIP out of the box. When I did this, I didn't do any real mods in the circuits really, I just prolonged the signal-line to the BIP and grounded the BIP just at the coil instead.
My idea was that I didn't want the charging of the coil going thru the long thin line of the harness. This mod (moving out the BIP) didn't have just any effect no positive nor any negative, as far as I can judge.

Now I would like to put in my new Mototron coil instead, and need to make a logic 5 v signal, and to keep the BIP removed if I understood it right.

/Lars

[Matt Cramer]

That should have a logic level 5V if Spark Output Inverted is set to Yes.

[lekman]

When I looked at the signal going to the BIP (at the stock coil) I read 3.8V, when using a scope. I didn't manage to get my Mototron to fire when I tried it, maby I should give it another try?

[lekman]

Where can I find a scheme over this part of the circuit? Perhaps I could start to understand more about this ignition circuit!
/Lars

[lekman]

scheme.jpg

I think I try to do this logic out (should suit VAG-coils). Any advise, should I start with Inverted or not in the settings?

Regards/Lars

[old guy]

How is your coil wired. Here is the pinout for the Mototron coil.
Product description
Mototron coil
That very affordable option where not VAG ignition coil is enough.
Connector is not included
Pin A: Signal from ECU.
Pin B: GND.
Pin C: GND.
Pin D: GND.
Pin E: +12V.
Product id: 1030
Is this how you have yours wired? I t looks like this is a VAG coil, so you might need to use the VAG triggering circuit.

[lekman]

I was told it should have the same trigger signal as a VAG-coil. Not sure how well that was documented though.
How should the setting be, when using a VAG, inverted or not?

Ill check my wires at the coil.

Thanks for the input/Lars

[lekman]

I have now done the logic output according to the schematics above. I haven't checked the signal with the Scope yet, but I have run the BIP-circuit with it, and the ignition behaved as normal when having a NO on the settings for Inverted or not! It seems that No is the right setting. I will look at it with the strobe and I will try of my Mototron would like to work.
Cheers/Lars

[lekman]

Hello
Once more a bit confused.
I have the exact same info as I got from old guy, that there are three grounds, that all should be ground. But when looking for more info, it seems that there are three different grounds, one for the signal, one for the primary circuit (battery, feeding ground), and one for the secondary (the one that should be connected to the cylinderhead),
Im referring to the Mototron coil..... Should I split the grounds and use them in these different purposes. Or should I put them all to the cylinder head?
That's the info I got when I bought the coil, that the three grounds are the same.

Best Regards/Lars

[old guy]

I would just ground all three to the cylinder head and see if it works.

[lekman]

I think I put the signal- and the 12V-ground to the car chassis and just putting the secondary ground to the head. Think that is reasonable IF really its separated inside the coil.

/Lars

[old guy]

If you follow the wiring directions in the MS manual grounds should always go to the block. Many people have run LS1 coils with the 12v and the sensor ground run to the block. Also a lot less wiring to be done. I would still run all three to the block.

[piledriver]

I feel that Im a bit ignorant here. Now I have measured the load over the coil when having the engine stopped with the ignition on. I then have 12 volts over the coil, 12 volts potential drop over the primary coil. The BIP-circuit is grounding the coil. This cant be as its meant to? Can this be due to that I don't have the BIP into the ms-box but instead have put out at the coil? I don't see how?

/Lars

That's how Kettering ignitions work... it gets weirder:
The coil fires when the BIP turns OFF and current stops.

[lekman]

That the coil fires when the current falls to zero in the primary circuit, that is equivalent to what happens when the contacts opens in a traditional very old system, I must agree that its a bit strange, is it due to the sharp transient in the primary winding?

Regarding the grounds in my system, practically nothing is ground at the engine. the box is ground at a location close to the battery - pole. The sensors are ground as I hope I was recommended to. The coil of today (BIP circuit ground) is ground in the engine bay, close to the head...
Is it a new recommendation to ground all of it to the cyl head?

/Lars

[piledriver]

It is due to the magnetic field (more or less) instantly collapsing when the current stops.

I ground sensors and logic returns at the ECU, on the mount plate, and the power grounds at the engine.
(In my case, LS2 coils the both grounds are clearly defined)
OTOH my ECU is next to my battery under the back seat, and both are ~4 feet or so from the engine.
(5-8 foot of harness in between)

One of the main advantages of "smart" coils is keeping the high power ignition noise out of the ECU.
On an engine with the battery right next to it "ground everything to the engine" makes some sense.
Not every setup look like that, nor works well like that.

[lekman]

The Mototron coil runs fine with this logic output, and the NO-setting gives the right signal.

Thanks for all input and help on this.

/Lars