Trigger Angle way off please help!!

[e30m10turbo]

HI all, new around here.

Have recently installed a MS1 v2.2 into my e30 1.8L turbo, long story short have managed getting it to fire/start idling but was so d*** rough.. the only way i could get it to idle stable was to go into the fuel/spark tables and adjust as the car was running, ended up with huge numbers(70-80degrees advanced) on the spark table to get it to idle correctly. is my trigger angle way off? i have a 36-1 trigger wheel with the sensor located at tooth 9 when engine is at TDC. I checked my timing with a timing light before starting the car while it was cranking and it was on 12 degrees advanced which matched my spark settings.

any help would be greatly appreciated as obviously i cant have my spark advance table sitting at 70-80 degrees at idle.

i have attached my spark setting/my Msq/ and my table

[Rick Finsta]

Physically verify the crank location when the first tooth after the missing tooth is at the sensor. I'm thinking you might be right at the edge of where you need the +22.5* setting?

Also used fixed timing when you're first verifying all this instead of using the table. This eliminates any other oddball modifiers you might have active (which we can't see without your tune file - read the tutorial on posting tune and log files when asking for help it will get you a lot more responses and we're all better informed).

[e30m10turbo]

Hi rick, thank you for your reply! In regards to what you said, the crank would be sitting at 270degrees BTDC or 90degrees AFTER TDC if the #1 tooth is sitting on the sensor.. if you are meaning my msq file I have that attached on original post.

[jsmcortina]

Disable "trigger return" until you know that the trigger angle is correct with a timing light.
Getting the trigger teeth and trigger angle set correctly on MS1 is tricky. Getting the trigger return teeth set correctly is extra tricky.

James

[Rick Finsta]

Doh! With the pictures I missed the .msq.

Forgive me I'm having trouble visualizing this now. The teeth are numbered in direction of rotation with tooth #1 being the the first tooth after the missing tooth. So it isn't possible for tooth #9 to be at the sensor at TDC and tooth #1 to be at the sensor at 90* ATDC. If tooth #1 is at the sensor 90* ATDC, then tooth #9 is at the sensor 180* ATDC and it is tooth 28 that is at the sensor at 90* BTDC. So you're exactly 180* out of phase... I think.

[e30m10turbo]

I have attached a quick drawing of how my trigger wheel is setup. So counting teeth you are correct in saying there is 28 teeth BTDC is where my sensor is placed. Can anyone confirm? So that would mean my trigger angle to be 280degrees?

[jsmcortina]

MS1 doesn't work as simply as that. Sounds like you need to adjust your trigger teeth too.

James

[e30m10turbo]

Thanks for the reply, do you mean the trigger positions? Which at the moment are set st 3-6-21-26 for wasted spark setup. Any ideas on what I might need or is that a trial and error sort of thing

[jsmcortina]

Please read the manual and use the trigger teeth spreadsheet (click on the image)

http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms1extra/MS_ ... #wheeldecr

James

[e30m10turbo]

can anyone please tell me, if i am able to use a trigger angle of 280 degrees? as my crank sits at TDC, tooth number 28 sits on the sensor.. using the calculator from previous post it tells me to use 60 degrees unless trig pos isnt a whole number.. so if i use trigger angle of 60 degrees but use the trigger positions it states? this is doing my head in! i dont understand this at all.. i have attached a photo of what i have come up with when using the calc.

[jsmcortina]

Yes. Use the numbers it shows you for Trigger Angle and Trigger Positions.

James

[Rick Finsta]

If it makes you feel better I had to swap my first trigger wheel end to end because I counted backwards, too.

Hope you have it figured, let us know.

[e30m10turbo]

hi team, thank you all for the replies.. have managed to get the car to run using new trig positions but is really rough. it runs and idles, any ideas on how i could help it from jumping around like crazy, rpm signal jumps around basically all the gauges jump around while in tunerstudio. have attached a datalog for any help! thanks.

[slow_hemi6]

You said it was a V2.2 so what type of crank sensor do you have and how do you have it connected?

[e30m10turbo]

I have a ford VR sensor, if I remember correctly with yellow and white wires. Positive and negative. Yellow to positive and white to negative on the MS1. Does this answer your question?

[jsmcortina]

As standard the V2.2 board doesn't support VR sensors.

James

[e30m10turbo]

I'm sorry but I did not know this.. what type of sensor can be used? I still get a steady rpm signal while cranking.. just a bit jumpy when idle

[slow_hemi6]

I have used hall sensors on the V2.2 but you can also get VR boards that will let you use the VR sensor. If you are handy with electronics you can use a lm1815 chip and a few components. I did this on my sons car.

[e30m10turbo]

i had a thought, and opened up my case of the unit to have a better look, and sure enough there is another board in there that looks like it has some use to VR? it has a black chip located on it which has LM1815N written on it.. is this board any use to me for using VR sensor? appologies for size of photos i dont know how to resize..

[slow_hemi6]

LM1815 is a VR conditioner. Not familiar with that board or how the supporting components are set up. This is the circuit from the manual. http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms1extra/MS_ ... htm#vrin22 I found that I had to remove the 330R resistor from the input and connect pin 14 straight to ground to get mine to work well, using a screened cable for the VR is also very important. Ground the screen at the ecu end.