E30 m20 turbo waste spark and initial settings

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billm203
MS/Extra Newbie
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:55 pm

E30 m20 turbo waste spark and initial settings

Post by billm203 »

new spark2017-07-10_17.47.19.msq
Hi guys I am new to the forum and the megasquirt world. I have n ems pro ecm which is basically a ms1extra setup to my understanding. I have the whole car wired and some basic settings done but I am having trouble finding what I Should have my settings set to for wheel decoder and spark settings. I know that it is a 60- 2wheel with a vr sensor and get rpm signal while cranking. i have ignition a b and c enabled. but am unsure what values need to be added for the trigger locations and trigger angle. also not sure what 024s9 style is versus 025 style for wheel routine.

as for the mechanical setup it is an 87 bmw 325e m20 with a "i" head.
gt35 turbo (temporary ebay)
individual ls style coils wired to fire in a waste spark setup
fuel cell with external pump stock rail and 80lb injectors (posssibly too much?)
60-2 front crank wheel from a newer e30 and crank sensor

any help and point into the right direction is greatly appreciated
thank you
Dutchredhead
MS/Extra Newbie
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:26 am

Re: E30 m20 turbo waste spark and initial settings

Post by Dutchredhead »

This is my 60-2 wasted spark setup on a original m20b27. Using MS2.
The 1:10 compression has 8-10 degree ignition advance. Your i head might need some more.
60-2 setting.JPG
E28 525e -M20B27- DIS, MS2 V3.0
billm203
MS/Extra Newbie
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:55 pm

Re: E30 m20 turbo waste spark and initial settings

Post by billm203 »

wheel decoder.jpg
Thanks for the reply.
i set my cylinder 1 to tdc and marked the crank and timing cover with lines to indicate tdc.
I set all my advance to 0 and cranked the motor with the timing light on , and was able to dial in the 0 advance to sync with tdc cylinder one by changing the trigger angle number . i attached a screenshot of the settings i have now. the car starts quicker and idles a lot better than before however still having some issues.
first off i cant figure out how to get my idle below 1100 rpm, idk where the target idle setting would be? also it runs super rich no matter what I do which may be because my injectors are to big for the application or i just need to mess with the ve table some more?
second cant rev past 1700 rpm, acts like its hitting some type of rev limit or 2step type of sound,
third i have had 2 set of ls truck coil die on me and i havent even driven the car yet, is there a setting i have that could cause this? too much or too little dwell? incorrect timing? plug gap?
fourth and last may be the result of above or the cause, turbo manifold seems to get super hot at idle, glows red as well as turbo hot side , gets hotter longer I idle it , coolant temps are a little hot as well .
I attached my msq
the spark and ve tables i copied from a thread on e30tech from what i read they should work as a ood starting point/base maps
Any input is greatly appreciated, Ive been a tech for 10 years but this stand alone stuff is a whole new world
thanks again

current mechanical setup
m20 from 325e 885 "i" head fresh rebuild with arps
ebay manifold and gt35 turbo
3 inch exhaust with glasspack muffler
extrnal wastegate
fuel cell with inline pump rated 5-600 hp
Dutchredhead
MS/Extra Newbie
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:26 am

Re: E30 m20 turbo waste spark and initial settings

Post by Dutchredhead »

Check if the VR sends the proper signal.
Since you run a ms1 copy unit I'm not familiar with the exact options to check here.

You might wanna check the injectors ohms.
Low or high requires different setting and/or correct
Drivers on your ecu.
If turbo glows red it can be to retarded ignition, burning the fuel into exhaust. Or it has to much restrictions downwards.
E28 525e -M20B27- DIS, MS2 V3.0
billm203
MS/Extra Newbie
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:55 pm

Re: E30 m20 turbo waste spark and initial settings

Post by billm203 »

Dutchredhead wrote:Check if the VR sends the proper signal.
Since you run a ms1 copy unit I'm not familiar with the exact options to check here.

You might wanna check the injectors ohms.
Low or high requires different setting and/or correct
Drivers on your ecu.
If turbo glows red it can be to retarded ignition, burning the fuel into exhaust. Or it has to much restrictions downwards.

confirmed that the injectors are high impedance and settings agree with that, i think you are on to something with ignition being too retarded and burning fuel into exhaust.
so far i have confirmed cam timing is dead on , spark plug gap is correct and have all 6 coils firing . vr sensor signal seems accurate but how would i go and check this?
Some more checks - with cylinder 1 tdc on compression stroke my vr sensor lines up with tooth 16 on the 60-2 wheel. using the wheel decoder spreadsheet i get the settings that are entered in my msq. with the engine at tdc i made a mark on the tooth 16 that it aligned at tdc so it will show up with a timing light. at idle i am commanding 10*btdc timing but the timing light it showing lighting when tooth 18/19 are aligned with the vr sensor which to my understanding means the timing is retarded, correct? on a 60-2 wheel each tooth is approx. 12* so that means i am running 12*ATDC and most likely burning fuel is getting into the exhaust . how would I go about to correct this ? i set the ego correct off and made the turn on prameters so far out it will stay in open loop, also i dont have a knock sensor and the table is disabled so that shouldnt be pulling timing. is there something im missing that could be doing that? hoping with this straightend out i can actually have the car running and start tuning for real.

i attached my msq, the spark map is set to 10* just for testing purposes at the moment
drew a picture of the 60-2 setup (i apologizr for the slopiness but im no artist)

thank you in advance
ihateforums
Helpful MS/Extra'er
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:38 pm

Re: E30 m20 turbo waste spark and initial settings

Post by ihateforums »

at idle i am commanding 10*btdc timing but the timing light it showing lighting when tooth 18/19 are aligned with the vr sensor which to my understanding means the timing is retarded, correct? on a 60-2 wheel each tooth is approx. 12* so that means i am running 12*ATDC
Considering your spark timing is way off and you mentioned fried coil packs, are you sure you have the correct setting for "Spark Output: Going High" ???

I can't say for sure without knowing how your setup is wired, but I wonder if it should be on "Going Low" instead...

You might want to set your cranking timing to Trigger Return instead of Time Based.
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