TinyIOx: read LC1 digital data. Now with generic PWM

[piledriver]

So... you can also do a TinyIOX for $75, it speaks i2c OR innovate serial and supports 16 WBO2s...
Now we just need cheap thermocouple amps that speak i2c and you have everything, cheap...
OOOOooh they exist!, even cheap!
(dammit, the really cheap ones are Dallas/Maxim 1 wire protocol, but isn't 1wire really just I2C? <$3 each retail)
the seeedstudio or adafruit i2c boards should work, but there should be other TC amps that have direct i2c comms?

SPI speaking TC amps seem common... IOX speak SPI?

So you could theoretically put 8 i2c TC modules and 4+ WBO2 14pont7 modules on a small board with the TinyIOX for ~$500, including the wideband controllers..(not including sensors of course)

Is there a posted footprint for the tinyIOX?
i2c too slow for that many devices?

[racingmini_mtl]

The web page has all the dimensions and locations of the mounting holes and headers: http://www.jbperf.com/io_extender/tinyIOx.html.

The issue with I2C and SPI is that every device has to be explicitly supported by dedicated code. If you use an analog devices like the AD597 that I use in other boards, you can simply connect it to an ADC input and do the calibration in TunerStudio. You could also use the AD8497.

And while you can make you own board, I do have prototypes of a few boards that will allow this in a slightly different way. There's a TinyIOx carrier board that has conditioner circuits for all the board I/Os and has an optional 4 TC amp plug-in board (using ADC inputs) and a 4 SLC OEM (14point7) carrier board that can be connected over I2C to the first board. I also have LED display boards that also connect to the carrier board through I2C so that you can display the AFR data, the EGT, RPM and more. Here's a small teaser:

teaser1.jpg

Jean

[retired]

That would be my kitchen worktop in the photo.....

I'm helping Jean with the testing of it over in the UK, there will be a couple more helping shortly over here, I'm just the first.



A series classic Mini turbocharged and intercooled running running MS2-E siamese code.

Outers and inners and after the turbo (just at idle).

For this test the LSUs are the newer 4.9s in the inner/outer sample chambers (target temperature 780C) and a single 4.2 after the turbo (target temperature 750C).

The 14point7 controllers work really well controlling LSU temperatures and they are pretty much the only ones on the market that actually display the temperatures (with the right hardware/software).

The kit works fine with an Innovate LC-1 or LC-2 chain (I've tested it with a single LC-1) but it's definately 14point7 friendly as only they display the LSU temperatures.

I had a trial version of this about a year ago (see here http://forum.jbperf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1360 ) and the latest version is a lot better than the bits I built.

Rod.

[piledriver]

Slick.

I saw that Alan To has released a new Spartan2 OEM board that will eventually replace the SLC OEM.
The current picture is still a SLC-oem.
http://www.14point7.com/products/spartan-2-oem

"works already" will always have legs, but I still dig the idea of an array of $2-3 cold point compensated MAX31850 i2c EGT/CHT modules (that works with K/J/T/N or E type TCs) vs. $17 each analogs.

I suspect there are code examples/libs to read the Maxim modules already on most platforms.

[racingmini_mtl]

A $2-3 ready-to-use module would be great but I don't see that. What I see are bare chips around that price. Am I missing something? Chips that work at 3.3V and need a board and other components and a 1-wire to I2C translator and a case don't amount to much of a difference in the end compared to what is currently available (or planned).

And as you alluded in your previous post, there is a limit in the number of devices connected to the bus. But it should not be a problem for a 4-cylinder setup with AFR, EGT and LED display setup. But what is problematic is that the I2C bus is noise sensitive so even what is currently being tested will need thorough validation before it's made available. So adding more devices would only make things worse.

Having said that, I'm definitely open to suggestions. If you see some way to add functionality cheaply (or not), let me know and give me as much information as possible and I'll see what can be done.

Jean

[piledriver]

Mostly I was thinking that as the new 14point7 OEM module will require a carrier board redesign anyway.

A new carrier board for a Tiny IOX, I2C TC amps + the new postage stamp sized Spartan2 OEMs might prove tiny, inexpensive, practical combination, and would alleviate some of the noise issues of grafting on ready made i2c TC modules, which are still cheaper than the AD595s used now... while preserving all the analog inputs.

The size of the board would probably be dictated by the area required for the screw terminals at the perimeter..

[racingmini_mtl]

Just a few points that need clarifying. First the Spartan 2 module is not significantly smaller than the SLC OEM. Second, I don't use the AD595 but the AD597 which makes a significant difference and means that using the Adafruit module (if that is the one you mean) is not cheaper. If you have another I2C TC module in mind, please let me know and provide a link if possible because I would be interested. And it would be better to have a real I2C interface (not single wire) and a 5V or 12V supply.

So I'll see how testing goes with the current setup. Then I'll see what the response is. The problem with that type of board is that everyone has their own preferred combination of I/Os which would either mean a large number of different carrier boards with each having only a few buyers or a board with everything being an option which is also problematic for different reasons.

Jean

[piledriver]

If one were designing a new board, you would want a chip, cleaner, far cheaper and smaller.
Electrically adapting i2c to 1 wire buss requires a 89 cent soic8 chip (~$1.59 in eaches)

Code wise, it may be another matter, most apps where you use an i2c to 1 wire adapter likely do not have a mix of i2c and 1 wire on the same buss.
That may be a show stopper, need to research. (looks like it works, but code is required)

I'm surprised at the lack of i2c sensor chips: AD has a neat, cheap high accuracy $7 4 channel spi or i2c unit but it seems to be for thermistors.

One wire has some upsides for this application:
1 wire is somewhat slower than i2c, but is supposedly far more noise resistant and allows considerable wire lengths.
Number of devices on single 1wire channel: unlimited for any practical use.(64 bit addresses)

The TC amps (perhaps other 1 wire sensors etc) might be mounted in the engine compartment, with the balance of the device mounted in the cabin.

Not sure how the addressing would work, 1 wire devices have a 64 bit baked in unique device id code, so you would have to sort out which device was which channel at some point and store that info, but there is code for device discovery.

To avoid cluttering this thread up, I'll start another thread when I have something solid.

[dontz125]

SLC OEM - 45x16mm, Sp2 OEM - 40x24mm. Slightly shorter, but 50% wider than the older board.

I'm waiting patiently for Alan to realise he hasn't posted the documentation for this unit; I want to take a look through it. This business of specifying a fixed I2C address at time of order strikes me as a chance for difficulty for device manufacturers ...

[piledriver]

SLC OEM - 45x16mm, Sp2 OEM - 40x24mm. Slightly shorter, but 50% wider than the older board.

I'm waiting patiently for Alan to realise he hasn't posted the documentation for this unit; I want to take a look through it. This business of specifying a fixed I2C address at time of order strikes me as a chance for difficulty for device manufacturers ...

I would suspect its a setting that can be done when loading firmware, or simply requires a microscope and steady hand, so its "not changeable" for end users, but would be for manufacturing.

Firmware would likely be field loadable via i2c or bdm or such.

He does at least some of his "tech support" via Google Groups at https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/14point7
He doesn't live on there, I suspect he has a regular job and does the WBO2 stuff in spare moments.

I'll go head and request the docs.

[dontz125]

Firmware would likely be field loadable via i2c or bdm or such.

Hopefully; that was one of the biggest complaints of the original SLC OEM - when a firmware upgrade became necessary 4-ish years ago, the boards had to be physically exchanged. As in, unsoldered from whatever carrier board and mailed back to Toronto.

[piledriver]

Firmware would likely be field loadable via i2c or bdm or such.

Hopefully; that was one of the biggest complaints of the original SLC OEM - when a firmware upgrade became necessary 4-ish years ago, the boards had to be physically exchanged. As in, unsoldered from whatever carrier board and mailed back to Toronto.

Note I made the comment as that would be the logical thing to do, but I do occasionally suffer from being an optimist.
Hopefully Alan heeded the complaints.

BTW, does the CAN-EGT still have the i2c bits? I know it has the serial port for Innovate comm daisy chain.
Just wondering it would be possible to mount it all on a carrier board with some i2c WBO2 modules.
(I realize a full up IOX makes more sense up front, just looking for add-on options if someone had a CAN-EGT already.)

[racingmini_mtl]

Yes the CAN-EGT does have the I2C port available. So that would possible.

And I don't think a firmware upgrade or an I2C address on the Spartan 2 can be done by the user or a reseller. Which is why you need to choose the I2C address when you order.

Jean

[retired]

Just a short update, I'll let the rather bad photo explain,



Basically my own adafruit displays on the left (very experimental still, left over from the original testing) plus Jean's own two display boxes.

All chained together nicely, ignore the missing display third down on the left, I disabled it as nothing meaningfull to display there.

EGTs, AFRs, LSU temperatures (2 x 4.9 and 1 x 4.2) and RPMs across the bottom (just checking all three displays worked hence the duplicated RPMs, interesting to see a slight delay on either the I2C or the CanBus as there is a very slight discrepancy in the RPM readings).

All looking very good for either a custom dash or easy to read development work.

Hopefully; that was one of the biggest complaints of the original SLC OEM - when a firmware upgrade became necessary 4-ish years ago, the boards had to be physically exchanged. As in, unsoldered from whatever carrier board and mailed back to Toronto.

I couldn't agree more, one of mine got "lost" for four months which put me off using them for quite some time. But, at the end of the day, they are just so much better than anything else on the market at a comperable price.

[eMTea]

Hi Jean!

I have now purchased a TinyIOx board.

For the assembly of the ADC circuits, some for 0-5v and some for bosch style thermal sensors, can I use these circuits?



Are all the resistors 1/4w? and any special specs for capacitors?

And the CAN-bus, from the pinout in the TinyIOx page, I cant find where the MS3X connects the can bus.
Is it through the jack connector or separate pins on the board?
Maybe you have a more informative manual for this?

BR, Magnar, Norway.

[racingmini_mtl]

Yes, you can use these circuits. The resistors can be 1/4W or they may even be 1/8W because the current is minimal. For the capacitors, use ceramic caps; using 10V caps should work but a higher value (25V or even 50V) won't make much of a price difference and will add some margin in case of noise spikes.

The CAN bus is on the main board on JS6 and JS8; you can see that in the schematics section of the MS3 manual. You may already have put jumpers to SPR1 and SPR2 to bring it to the DB37 connector. If you put the TinyIOx inside the MS3 case, which is the usual method, simply connect CANH to JS6 and CANL to JS8. You can leave the jumpers if they're there so that you can connect additional external CAN devices.

Jean

[eMTea]

Ok, good, thanks for clarification!

With the X card, I don't think it's enough space inside the enclosure, so I'm browsing around eBay for a suited enclosure and connector. So I can make a separate loom too.
All sensors connected to this is only for logging, so I'd like to keep this unit separate from the sensors running the engine.

When connecting to the MS3X, I only need 4 pins?
5v,
0v(GND),
CAN L,
CAN H.?

[racingmini_mtl]

When connecting to the MS3X, I only need 4 pins?
5v,
0v(GND),
CAN L,
CAN H.?

Correct.

[eMTea]

Thank you again

[eMTea]

As for the R65, R66 and R67 (2,49k) in the upper illustration (for ADC's on MS3X card).
Are they only bias resistors, and should not be used with a 0-5v signal, only for thermal sensors?

If above assumed correct, shall R23, R27 and R33 be 1k for 0-5v sensors and 2,2k for thermal sensors?