Peak and hold injector driver board

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turbo355
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Post by turbo355 »

Yeah i agree i think if it would be possible to make one for the uS that would be able run at least 4 low ohm inj i know it would sell for the turbo bike crowd who are running big HP and need the low ohm inj.
JET
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Post by JET »

Jon k wrote:Jean,

There definitely is demand for the external box. If I can avoid running an AEM product, I will.
Agree.A nice solution/compliment to the peak &hold board if you don't have the extra room in the case, have to remove enough of the original MS injector components,or don't want to add more connectors in the MS box...cheers
racingmini_mtl
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Post by racingmini_mtl »

I'm thinking of making a board that would fit in this case: http://www.hammondmfg.com/pdf/1455C1201.pdf. The board would have 4 drivers and you would be able to fit either 1 or 2 boards in the case for 4-8 drivers. The case would be used as a heatsink so you'd have to drill holes in the case (as for the current p&h board). I wouldn't use any connector on the board so it would require the use of an external connector (or a couple of connectors) with wires going through the endplate through a rubber grommet.

I think this is the easiest and cheapest way to keep the thing DIY and still be able to keep the thing water proof if needed. You could use sealant for this. The use of sealed connectors such as the Ampseal use on the Microsquirt would be great but price and availability would make it harder for DIY. It would also require a larger case.

Let me know if that is an interesting compromise or if that makes it unattractive. The board would be slightly more expensive (a few $) because it would be bigger than the current board due to the added components and the new components would also add a few $. Like I said before, there are additional transistors and resistors which are cheap but there would also be a need to have a 5V voltage regulator which is more expensive due to the peripheral components. That would probably add a total of about $10 more than the current p&h board BOM but if you have 2 boards in the case then this wouldn't have to be used on both boards.

Jean
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JET
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Post by JET »

That sounds like a good idea.I'd be interested in one.Do you know the cost of the case? cheers
racingmini_mtl
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Post by racingmini_mtl »

The case is $11.99 at Digikey. The board (for 4 drivers) would be about $20.

Jean
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turbo355
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Post by turbo355 »

Sounds good. What do you think the BOM will run around the same for the standard P&H board minus the enclosure?
racingmini_mtl
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Post by racingmini_mtl »

The additional components compared to the p&h board V1.1 BOM are:

Code: Select all

R10-17  1.0KEBK-ND       RES 1.0K OHM 1/6W 5% CARBON FILM  10  $0.0520  $0.52  8 req. but order multiples of 5
Q6-9    2N3904FS-ND      IC TRANS NPN SS GP 200MA TO-92     4  $0.1100  $0.44
U5      497-2550-5-ND    REV BATT & OVERVOLT PROT TO220AB   1  $2.2500  $2.25
U6      LM2937ET-5.0-ND  IC REGULATOR LDO TO-220            1  $2.0600  $2.06
D6      1N4001FSCT-ND    DIODE GEN PURPOSE 50V 1A DO41      1  $0.1100  $0.11
C9-10   399-4575-ND      CAPACITOR TANT 22UF 20V 10% AXL    2  $1.6400  $3.28
C11     399-4329-ND      CAP .1UF 50V 10% CER RADIAL        1  $0.2100  $0.21
C12     399-4202-ND      CAP 1000PF 100V 10% CER RADIAL     1  $0.1700  $0.17
R10-17 replace R10-13 in the original BOM and U5-6, D6, C9-12 are for a 5V power supply. If you use the MS board's 5V supply (Vref) you can save by omitting those components. However, if you're going to have 2 boards (8 drivers) then you should build the power supply on one of them (only need one) because this might be too much for the MS power supply (this will draw more than the current p&h board). Even with a single board, it might be best to have the power supply. Also if you use this with another ECU then the independent power supply is the preferred method.

In addition to the BOM and the enclosure, you'll need rubber grommets, wiring and connectors but this isn't any different from the current p&h board.

Jean
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racingmini_mtl
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Post by racingmini_mtl »

This is what the board looks like (click on the image for a larger view):
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The board is 80mm x 51mm (3.15"x2.01") and the case is 120mm long so the 5 TO220 transistors lay flat on the bottom of the case on each side of the board.

Jean
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JET
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Post by JET »

Looks great, For a DIY would this type of weatherpack connector be fairly cheap to pick up?
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racingmini_mtl
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Post by racingmini_mtl »

Waytek has weather pack connectors and other sealed automotive connectors. However, they don't have the exact ones you show and they have a somewhat annoying minimum order which is different for all the needed parts (connector body, seals, terminals, ...). Mouser also has weather pack connectors but only up to 6 wires (same as Waytek).

The picture you show is very similar to what I had in mind. I'll have to look what would be the best option in terms of connector and where to get them.

Jean
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JET
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Post by JET »

Yes, looked around and the "weatherpack" ones seem to only come up as a max 6 pin. " Deutsch" makes sealed connectors in 8 and 12 pin.Here
's one as an example on ebay.They are for 16-18 gauge wire and also list pins for these in a 14 gauge.Would one 12-pin work for one 4 injector board? 8 pins for the injector lines and since there is only 2 injector drivers only 2 lines needed ,one for each channel an then jumpered inside at the board.2 for 12Volt and ground.

Deutsch 8-pin set on ebay
Last edited by JET on Mon Dec 24, 2007 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
racingmini_mtl
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Post by racingmini_mtl »

I had a quick look and Mouser has the Metri-pack 150 connectors. They're rated at 14A which is more than enough (could even use 1 pin to ground 2 injectors). The connectors are available here in 8, 10 and 18 positions (or fewer) which makes wiring quite flexible. The terminals can be found here.

Prices seem quite reasonable and, as I said, they allow different wiring options. For 4 injectors, a 10-position connector could be used: 4 injectors, 2 injector grounds (pair injector grounds from the board), 2 injector channels from the Megasquirt or Microsquirt, 12V (or 5V, depending on build option), and logical ground). With more injectors (2 boards) and/or with sequential injection , other options with a couple of connectors are also possible.

Jean
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racingmini_mtl
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Post by racingmini_mtl »

JET wrote:Yes, looked around and the "weatherpack" ones seem to only come up as a max 6 pin. " Deutsch" makes sealed connectors in 8 and 12 pin.Here
's one as an example on ebay.They are for 16-18 gauge wire and also list pins for these in a 14 gauge.

Deutsch 8-pin set on ebay
I was writing at the same time as you :)

Those Deutsch connectors look nice and reasonably priced also. That would be another good choice.

Jean
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JET
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Post by JET »

Those look nice also.The only downside to those deutsch connectors is the crimpers are expensive.Any ideas of a way around that? cheers
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Post by Jon k »

Jean - super interested now. How small is the case (no PDF viewer on this PC at the moment)? Will it work with the MS 3.57? How about MS-2 Sequencer? Does it work just like the other aftermarket drivers where we just give the board a normal "high ohm" input signal and it does its magic to make it P&H? I am interested if so!
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racingmini_mtl
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Post by racingmini_mtl »

Jon k wrote:Jean - super interested now. How small is the case (no PDF viewer on this PC at the moment)? Will it work with the MS 3.57? How about MS-2 Sequencer? Does it work just like the other aftermarket drivers where we just give the board a normal "high ohm" input signal and it does its magic to make it P&H? I am interested if so!
The case is 120mm x 54mm x 23mm (4.72" x 2.13" x 0.91"). It will work with the MS 3.57, the Sequencer, the Microsquirt, the MS 3.0, MS2.2 and potentially with other aftermarket and OEM ECUs (at least all of them that don't check injector current to diagnose a fault). The current and voltage to the ECU injector driver will be very low which is not a bad thing in itself but it may cause problems with some modern OEM ECUs which may stop working because they've detected a "fault" in the injectors. This will not cause an issue with any of the Megasquirt boards, quite the opposite because things will run cooler. It's very similar to the injector LEDs on the stim.

With one board in the case it will do up to 4 injectors and with 2 boards it will do up to 8 injectors (in batch or sequential mode). And as you say, it will work like the other aftermarket drivers with a high ohm signal. The grounding signal of the ECU is internally converted into a 5V pulse used by the LM1949 and you get a 4A/1A peak & hold injector signal.

I'm getting some parts to check the physical layout. I also want to do some tests on heat management to see if the case is enough of a heatsink or if something else is needed. When I'm sure everything fits as it should I'll have a first batch of boards made. It think that mid to late January I should have the boards available. At first, I'll only have boards available and it will be a DIY type of thing. If I see that there is enough demand for it and that it could be worthwhile, I may offer fully assembled boxes. Another good option would be to have a reseller carry the box.

Jean
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Jon k
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Post by Jon k »

Awesome Jean - consider me in.

My car is apart getting... uh... fast. So I have time. But I am not sure what I'll be using be it a MS 3.57 which I have or an MS-2 Sequencer which should be out soon I hope. Either way, I'll need a unit good for 6 injectors (so two boards). Is that BOM adequate for what I want to do? Let me know when you've got the boards set up, I'd like 2 :)
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Jon k
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Post by Jon k »

Any news?
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racingmini_mtl
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Post by racingmini_mtl »

Jon k wrote:Any news?
Well, the boards are being made as I write this. I should have them in a couple of weeks. Then I'll do some tests to see how to fit them in the case. At the moment, there are 2 options: the case I mentioned before which is 120mmx54mmx23mm (4.72"x2.13"x0.91") which will take 2 boards and the smaller box which is 80mmx54mmx23mm (3.15"x2.13"x0.91") that would take 1 board. I just need to check if it is possible to fit the board and the transistors in the smaller box because the board itself will fit but it might be difficult to fit the transistors and attach them correctly to the case for heat sinking.

So I'll assemble a board and trial fit it to both cases to see what the options are and I'll give the results here. If its possible to fit a single board (4 drivers) in the smaller box it will make for a nice compact packaging.

I also have ordered two types of connectors from Mouser and Digikey which are both sealed automotive-type connectors. They are not too expensive and could make good choices. They're the Packard GT150 (Mouser) and the Tyco/Amp mate-n-lok (Digikey). I still haven't checked how to crimp them (do they absolutely need an expensive crimper or will they work ok with a cheaper one?). I'll give more details later. By the way, the connector setup will be similar to the picture in Jet's post from December 24.

Cheers,
Jean
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Jon k
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Post by Jon k »

racingmini_mtl wrote:
Jon k wrote:Any news?
Well, the boards are being made as I write this. I should have them in a couple of weeks. Then I'll do some tests to see how to fit them in the case. At the moment, there are 2 options: the case I mentioned before which is 120mmx54mmx23mm (4.72"x2.13"x0.91") which will take 2 boards and the smaller box which is 80mmx54mmx23mm (3.15"x2.13"x0.91") that would take 1 board. I just need to check if it is possible to fit the board and the transistors in the smaller box because the board itself will fit but it might be difficult to fit the transistors and attach them correctly to the case for heat sinking.

So I'll assemble a board and trial fit it to both cases to see what the options are and I'll give the results here. If its possible to fit a single board (4 drivers) in the smaller box it will make for a nice compact packaging.

I also have ordered two types of connectors from Mouser and Digikey which are both sealed automotive-type connectors. They are not too expensive and could make good choices. They're the Packard GT150 (Mouser) and the Tyco/Amp mate-n-lok (Digikey). I still haven't checked how to crimp them (do they absolutely need an expensive crimper or will they work ok with a cheaper one?). I'll give more details later. By the way, the connector setup will be similar to the picture in Jet's post from December 24.

Cheers,
Jean
Sounds awesome Jean - I personally would prefer the slightly larger case because I have a 6 cyl... unless you could make a 6 cyl single board :)

Awesome keep me posted!
1992 BMW 525i M50 Non Vanos 24v Turbocharged
Stock COP Wasted Spark
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