Project : DBW throttle with Jean's TinyIOX & Polulu JRK12v12

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Project : DBW throttle with Jean's TinyIOX & Polulu JRK12v12

Postby Manu » Sat Feb 07, 2015 5:55 am

Hello,

I'm currently working on a project to drive a DBW throttle body using existing components. This project is currently under test.

Here what it is :

Polulu JRK module :
Polulu sell a very fine module that is designed to drive DC motors : https://www.pololu.com/product/1393
This module come fully assembled and allow to drive any motors. After 5 minutes of settings I got a very reactive system. Polulu's module have several security systems to avoid damages to DC motors and to be sure to get accurate position. It have watchdogs, timeouts, currents limitations. All those settings can be set to fit your needs and system.
This module can be usable alone if you connect your "pedal" straight to it and you don't need Jean's module if you want a 1:1 pedal/TPS response..
Here a video of this system with a test DBW throttle body. 5 minutes to set it and there it is :D
http://youtu.be/XoGgkA_9P0Q

Jean's TinyIOX :
With the use of this module you add several functions to the system :mrgreen:

  • IDLE value from MS ecu, witch allow you to drive DBW throttle to maintain IDLE !
  • You can have a non 1:1 pedal/TPS response

How ?

Image

This is my next step. The polulu module can be drive with RC PWM. Jean's module can output RC PWM... All is perfect. If we use a generic PWM output (command to polulu module), an analog input (pedal position) and read IDLE duty from MS (using CAN), we can write a table which output take account of pedal position, idle duty and for wich the output is the RC given to polulu module :RTFM:

In this case we have : %OPENING = f(pedal position, Idle duty)

Image

And the system remain safe as if TinyOX loose CAN connexion to the ECU, you only loose IDLE regulation. But the tinyIOX/Polulu system remain OK.

Just to share :D
Manu

EDIT : put video on youtube for fastest access
EDIT2 : remove announce about thoughts of selling a finished product. This will not happen due to risk in regard of law
Last edited by Manu on Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:10 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Project : DBW throttle with Jean's TinyIOX & Polulu JRK1

Postby Manu » Sat Feb 07, 2015 6:11 am

And this is why I asked this to James/Ken :

viewtopic.php?f=125&t=56980

If this is possible, this system can be use with MS3 without Jean's module.
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Re: Project : DBW throttle with Jean's TinyIOX & Polulu JRK1

Postby xrattiracer » Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:47 pm

I am starting to think a DBW throttle would be nice for antilag too. Seems like it should be possible to get antilag valve position via CAN as well, or from an external input from the ms output if necessary and have the controller do an offset calculation. I will have to think about this, nice tip on the driver hardware :)
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Re: Project : DBW throttle with Jean's TinyIOX & Polulu JRK1

Postby jsiedlicki » Sun Mar 15, 2015 1:12 pm

Manu wrote:... P.S. : I plan to made this module available as a cased product soon.


Some of us are patiently waiting for a safe DBW solution that works with MS, any updates?
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Re: Project : DBW throttle with Jean's TinyIOX & Polulu JRK1

Postby acab » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:59 am

No news)?
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Re: Project : DBW throttle with Jean's TinyIOX & Polulu JRK1

Postby Manu » Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:55 am

Hi,

It's under heavy test on a Audi S4 since a month. It look like it can be a good solution. I still want to make a good PCB for this before releasing the product.

Bests,
Manu
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Re: Project : DBW throttle with Jean's TinyIOX & Polulu JRK1

Postby acab » Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:39 pm

Manu wrote:Hi,

It's under heavy test on a Audi S4 since a month. It look like it can be a good solution. I still want to make a good PCB for this before releasing the product.

Bests,
Manu



can you share your schematics and pcb?
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Re: Project : DBW throttle with Jean's TinyIOX & Polulu JRK1

Postby phoenix3d » Sun Apr 19, 2015 5:18 am

Yes Please!!.. Would you be able to share?..
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Re: Project : DBW throttle with Jean's TinyIOX & Polulu JRK1

Postby seb209726 » Sun Apr 19, 2015 5:22 am

A pcb will only be a neater solution to what is described in the OP.... And is actually not necessarily needed. For those (like me) who want to try it, it can be done by wiring the card externally.
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Re: Project : DBW throttle with Jean's TinyIOX & Polulu JRK1

Postby jsmcortina » Sun Apr 19, 2015 7:47 am

Sorry to have to bring this up....

I just wanted to make clear that the Megasquirt developers cannot sanction any "DBW" type projects or products that can't demonstrate that they have been engineered using a true safety critical design process.

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Re: Project : DBW throttle with Jean's TinyIOX & Polulu JRK1

Postby phoenix3d » Sun Apr 19, 2015 1:17 pm

Hi James...

Sure of course....I fully understand and agree....

(But it's so much fun to play.. ain't it?;-)

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Re: Project : DBW throttle with Jean's TinyIOX & Polulu JRK1

Postby Manu » Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:46 pm

jsmcortina wrote:Sorry to have to bring this up....

I just wanted to make clear that the Megasquirt developers cannot sanction any "DBW" type projects or products that can't demonstrate that they have been engineered using a true safety critical design process.

James


Agree with this too. This is why i share the 'logic' of the project but I'm not sure I will release any final product (I mostly sure not).

Even if polulu seem to be a very good driver, I don't know how the code work. And from my searchs, a real dbw controler should have 2 processors that watch each other to be safe. This is not the case. And legal aspect of selling a such project is beyond my scope :oops:

Cheers,
Manu
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Re: Project : DBW throttle with Jean's TinyIOX & Polulu JRK1

Postby jsmcortina » Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:57 pm

Ideally multiple processors and certainly some kind of software and hardware watchdog to shut the throttle if the CPUs lockup.

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Re: Project : DBW throttle with Jean's TinyIOX & Polulu JRK1

Postby Manu » Sun Apr 19, 2015 3:02 pm

jsmcortina wrote:Ideally multiple processors and certainly some kind of software and hardware watchdog to shut the throttle if the CPUs lockup.

James


Agree. James, if you want to delete the post i agree too.
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Re: Project : DBW throttle with Jean's TinyIOX & Polulu JRK1

Postby jsmcortina » Sun Apr 19, 2015 3:15 pm

I'm never really much of a fan of just deleting posts. That is very rare here on MSEXTRA. (Two reasons 1. we have a good community 2. we try not to be too authoritarian as admins.)

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Re: Project : DBW throttle with Jean's TinyIOX & Polulu JRK1

Postby Manu » Sun Apr 19, 2015 3:19 pm

Ok. This post will seat here as a possible project. I won't give anything more from what is already here and agree that, even if the solution work, it's not a safety certified one and it won't be used on roads (as megasquirt too in my country).

DBW throttles NEED a more safety product !

Cheers,
Manu
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Re: Project : DBW throttle with Jean's TinyIOX & Polulu JRK1

Postby Magovit » Mon May 11, 2015 1:35 am

Many good products starded his life from a simple device.

DBW is a delicated device couse he can put lifes in danger.
Why not open a separated sub-topic to catch all these briliant minds togheter to think about a product what meet all requeriments:.
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Re: Project : DBW throttle with Jean's TinyIOX & Polulu JRK1

Postby Coutsi » Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:00 pm

Hopefully DBW would be fully supported in megasquirt in the future. DBW would enable so many neat features, with enough collaboration, developing or modifying existing controller we could have safe version.
Control strategies for safety features are in the end quite simple.

All these already have DBW supported:
Motec,Haltech,Vipec,Proefi,AEM infinity,...

Why MS would remain behind these in development?

Haltech solution explained:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eHQuTCdjdQ
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Re: Project : DBW throttle with Jean's TinyIOX & Polulu JRK1

Postby Paul_VR6 » Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:29 pm

I can see a less robust solution working fine for racing environments. The rest, less so.
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Re: Project : DBW throttle with Jean's TinyIOX & Polulu JRK1

Postby anzelmi » Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:18 am

Now also Maxxecu and Ecumaster include DBW feature. When does Ms3pro get this feature?
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