The Definnitive M42 Crank and Cam Angle Info Thread

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bmwman91
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The Definnitive M42 Crank and Cam Angle Info Thread

Post by bmwman91 »

So, there is a bit of info out there regarding tooth angles and whatnot for the BMW M42 engine, but no single cohesive place with all of it. If you read around enough, you will probably come to the conclusion that the first tooth pulse after the gap is 114 degrees BTDC, which is correct as far as the physical setup on the engine goes. Since I am planning to rock a MS3Pro ECU at some point in the next year or two, I wanted to get a clear idea about this and document it once and for all. I borrowed an oscilloscope and popped the shell apart on the 88 pin connector that plugs into the Motronic so I could directly measure the VR sensors (and yes, both are VR type). It's been too long that only the M20 guys have had nice, well defined information to work from, and it is time for the M42 to get some nerd-love!

Which wire is which? This causes some confusion, mainly because the cam and crank sensors have the same wire colors, but one's polarity is reversed because BMW decided to swap the wires (for whatever reason). Keep in mind that this is the E30 M42, and I do not know if this changed in the E36.
- The crank sensor uses pins 67 and 68 of the Motronic. Pin 67 takes the black wire from the crank sensor, and this is the POSITIVE sensor output. Pin 68 takes the yellow wire from the crank sensor, and this connection is GROUNDED inside the Motronic. So, pin 67 is the crank sensor signal, which by convention would be called the positive output of the sensor.
- The cam sensor uses pins 16 and 44 of the Motronic. Pin 16 takes the yellow wire from the cam sensor, and this is the NEGATIVE sensor output. Pin 44 takes the black wire from the cam sensor, and this connection is GROUNDED inside the Motronic. So, pin 16 is the cam sensor signal, which by convention would be called the negative output of the sensor.

I am not sure why BMW reversed the signal wires between the two sensors. For those that are going stand-alone, you have the option of getting your cam signal from pin 44 (the positive output) and then whatever conditioner circuit you are feeding that (and the crank signal) into will behave the same way. With a VR sensor, both wires will essentially provide the same signal, but one is "flipped upside-down" relative to the other. Most VR conditioner circuits are designed for the VR positive output, and will give a digital rising edge when the VR output crosses zero from positive to negative.

The positive/negative convention is shown in the diagram below.
Image

Great, so that is a lot of reading about VR basics. What about the M42?

First, here's a scope shot of two full rotations of the crankshaft, with some annotations added. The amplitude changes a lot as the crank turns because my damper wheel is either out-of-round, or just worn out, so some teeth get closer to the sensor than those on the other side of the wheel. I did some measurements at 2000RPM and 3500RPM as well, and at 3500RPM the big voltage spike peaked at around 50V. That means that at redline, the VR sensor is going to be putting out a signal that peaks at over 100V.
Image

Here it is zoomed in a bit, with the important teeth marked.
Image

And here's a fun little graphic showing what is what and the relationship between moving parts with respect to the cam and crank sensors. Note that the cam lobes are not to scale or anything; they are just for fun to illustrate the general idea.
This forum seems to limit the image size. The link is to the larger version if you have trouble making out details.
http://www.e30tuner.com/assist/megasqui ... timing.png
Image


Note:
This is all based on photos of mine from over the years and a lot of online image searching. Thankfully it all seems to agree with existing information, as well as the oscilloscope measurements. If you find an error or think that you see an error, please let me know so that I can see if a correction is needed.



I plan to do a pretty in-depth look at ignition coil dwell times too, since that is also a critical parameter. That will involve more oscilloscope action with the goal of determining the factory dwell times for the coils (both for the M42 coils, and the M54 coils that are popular when relocating the coils onto the valve cover for a true COP setup). In a year or two (or whenever I get my ass into gear and install an aftermarket ECU) I will try to document all of the factory equipment (thermistors, idle control valve, etc) so that others will not have to spend weeks and weeks scratching their heads.
1991 BMW E30 318iS...soon to be Squirted.
prof315
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Re: The Definnitive M42 Crank and Cam Angle Info Thread

Post by prof315 »

There's nothing wrong with the hardware that you scoped for the crank signal. That is normal compression effect that you are seeing
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ashford
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Re: The Definnitive M42 Crank and Cam Angle Info Thread

Post by ashford »

what you have labeled as tooth 0 is what is called tooth #1 aka 1st tooth after the missing, the correct setting in generic toothed wheel is tooth #1 at 114* or add 360 to it if sequential is off
grom_e30
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Re: The Definnitive M42 Crank and Cam Angle Info Thread

Post by grom_e30 »

With megasquirt you can choose what edge of the signal you trigger off to match the way you wired the sensor to the ecu so if the signal is off try flipping from rising to falling or visa versa. as to the cam pulse for sequential the only place you don't want that to happen is at the same time as the gap in the main crank wheel, your wheel settings will be 114 tooth#1 dual wheel with missing tooth, as already mentioned if it puts the ignition on the wrong phase ( spark happens at tdc exhaust not tdc compression) add 360 to your 114. the coolant temp sensor calibration should be one of the defaults already built in try 'bmw e30 325i' for the calibration data a lot of the bosch temp sensors use the same calibration curve. icv if its the same as most other bmw's will be a pwm type will be happy running from 100-150hz.
1990 bmw 320i daily driver with m20b25 ms3 sequential fuel, 380cc injectors, d585 coil near plug, home made cam sync, launch control, fan control, vss, homebrew egt logging what's next????
bmwman91
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Re: The Definnitive M42 Crank and Cam Angle Info Thread

Post by bmwman91 »

ashford wrote:what you have labeled as tooth 0 is what is called tooth #1 aka 1st tooth after the missing, the correct setting in generic toothed wheel is tooth #1 at 114* or add 360 to it if sequential is off
Thanks for the correction. I have updated the diagrams with the proper numbering. Folks may need to Ctrl+F5 refresh to clear the cached copies.
1991 BMW E30 318iS...soon to be Squirted.
bmwman91
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Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:28 pm

Re: The Definnitive M42 Crank and Cam Angle Info Thread

Post by bmwman91 »

grom_e30 wrote:With megasquirt you can choose what edge of the signal you trigger off to match the way you wired the sensor to the ecu so if the signal is off try flipping from rising to falling or visa versa. as to the cam pulse for sequential the only place you don't want that to happen is at the same time as the gap in the main crank wheel, your wheel settings will be 114 tooth#1 dual wheel with missing tooth, as already mentioned if it puts the ignition on the wrong phase ( spark happens at tdc exhaust not tdc compression) add 360 to your 114. the coolant temp sensor calibration should be one of the defaults already built in try 'bmw e30 325i' for the calibration data a lot of the bosch temp sensors use the same calibration curve. icv if its the same as most other bmw's will be a pwm type will be happy running from 100-150hz.
Good info, thanks. I am going to get the scope on the ICV to see how it behaves too!
1991 BMW E30 318iS...soon to be Squirted.
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