Bosch CNG injectors fuel compatibility?

Specifications, applications, part numbers, and prices for various OEM fuel injection components.

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Janz99
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Bosch CNG injectors fuel compatibility?

Post by Janz99 »

Hey guys, I am getting ready to purchase a set of injectors for my build and would like to get some information from guys who have actually used these CNG injectors with gasoline or methanol.

I am looking at buying a set of the bosch 220lb injectors (Part # 0280158821) to use with pump gas and methanol. Some places say these injectors are compatible with everything but oxygenated fuels, and some sites say they are not compatible with anything but natural gas? I thought most of these large injectors were all CNG injectors, and companies like ID and FIC just flow/balance the sets?

How have your injectors been holding up? Any issues with them so far? How is the low pulse width control with them?

Thanks
Ryan
Matt Cramer
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Re: Bosch CNG injectors fuel compatibility?

Post by Matt Cramer »

I've seen them used with gasoline, but I'm not sure if they will handle methanol very well. Methanol is rather corrosive.
Matt Cramer -1966 Dodge Dart slant six running on MS3X
Janz99
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Re: Bosch CNG injectors fuel compatibility?

Post by Janz99 »

I wouldn't be leaving the Methanol in the car for extended periods of time. At most it would be in the car for a weekend at a time while at the race track. Once we get back from the track the fuel is drained and then flushed with pump gas (fired up and run) to make sure all the methanol is out. I did this when I was running e98 as well, and it seemed to eliminate any corrosion issues I was having with lines/fuel cell.

How are the idle/low pulse width characteristics with these CNG injectors? They look like a great alternative so far to the expensive FIC/ID injectors. 1700-2000$ on injectors is a bitter pill to swallow on a JY LS build.
Janz99
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Re: Bosch CNG injectors fuel compatibility?

Post by Janz99 »

I decided to try them out and see how they hold up. For the price of ID or FIC injectors, i figured id give these a shot first, and if it doesn't work out, ill go with a set of ID2000's.

Hopefully they will be here in the next week or so.
Paul_VR6
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Re: Bosch CNG injectors fuel compatibility?

Post by Paul_VR6 »

Watch the cng injectors, if your fuel gets hot (street car) it can make the internals swell and reduce flow. It doesnt happen to every cng injector but its a known issue on the 1600-1700cc variant.
-Paul
1992 Corrado SLC 3.6 VR6 11.38@120 - MS3 Pro Ultimate - Microsquirt I/O - Can EGT - Racepak IQ3s
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Janz99
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Re: Bosch CNG injectors fuel compatibility?

Post by Janz99 »

Thanks for the heads up. I have heard of this being a problem on the 160 lbs CNG injectors. From guys I have talked to so far that run the 210's, no one is having that issue yet.
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Re: Bosch CNG injectors fuel compatibility?

Post by Paul_VR6 »

They may be so huge no one notices or they are all running methanol which could be less susceptible.
-Paul
1992 Corrado SLC 3.6 VR6 11.38@120 - MS3 Pro Ultimate - Microsquirt I/O - Can EGT - Racepak IQ3s
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Janz99
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Re: Bosch CNG injectors fuel compatibility?

Post by Janz99 »

I am planning on running Methanol as well, but I would also like to run it on pump gas once and awhile when we putt around on the street. I have a mechanical fuel pump, which they don't tend to heat up the fuel as fast as large electric pumps without speed controllers.

I'll keep a watchful eye out though, from everyone I have talked to, they all say they have worked flawless. Hopefully I am not the exception.
jamies
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Re: Bosch CNG injectors fuel compatibility?

Post by jamies »

they dont work well on methanol, bosch issued a statement to all dealers about this.
I have seen this first hand where the flow rates were severely differerent between each inj after being in service for 6 months.
look at asnu injectors, lower flow rates but methanol compatable (1500cc)
jamies
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Re: Bosch CNG injectors fuel compatibility?

Post by jamies »

if you do use them, closely monitor egts.
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Re: Bosch CNG injectors fuel compatibility?

Post by Paul_VR6 »

If you want really good injectors pony up for the ID's. ALL fuel compatible.
-Paul
1992 Corrado SLC 3.6 VR6 11.38@120 - MS3 Pro Ultimate - Microsquirt I/O - Can EGT - Racepak IQ3s
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phoenix3d
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Re: Bosch CNG injectors fuel compatibility?

Post by phoenix3d »

Guys Please be aware that we've had numerous compatibility issues with CNG injector running Fuels, Gasoline/Ethanol & Methanol.

Depending on the CNG Injectors used.

The flow rate of the injectors can HALF due to temperature changes in the Injector.

We had 2 Drag engines sacrifice themselves on the Dyno because of this,
Unless you're monitoring EGT and Lambda Per Cylinder (With Corrections of coarse)

PLEASE BE CAREFULL...

Gordon
Janz99
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Re: Bosch CNG injectors fuel compatibility?

Post by Janz99 »

What injector were these failures on? I've talked to a few guys that have had this same issue, and everyone that I've spoken to said it was on the 160lb Bosch injector.

I've also read the data bulletin that Bosch put out in 2012 about running these injectors with fuel. I personally feel that this was put out because they had never tested them with fuel, and because they couldn't verify the results people would have, they needed to cover their own butts.

Since then, the issue with the 160's has come to light, and everyone I've talked to that has run the 210"s has had nothing but good things to say about them. Two guys who have run them for 4+ years so far have not seen any reduced flow. Again this is all with the 210's.

I already bit the bullet and ordered a set, I am planning to run individual egt's, so ill report back and let you guys know how they go. I'm starting out with a stock'ish LS setup on a billet 75mm turbo to get the hang of tuning methanol. This will be a great test bed for these injectors, and if they perform well, I can transfer them over to the built engine once its completed.

As for the ID injectors, they are not compatible with all fuels. This is directly off their website:

"Fuel Compatibility – Compatible with Methanol/Ethanol/All Known Hydrocarbon Fuels. Incompatible with MTBE/Nitro Methane/Nitro Propane."

I would also assume that these CNG injectors would not be compatible with oxygenated fuels (MTBE) but this isn't a problem since I've never used, or plan to use them.

Thanks again for all the input! Its greatly appreciated.
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Bosch CNG injectors fuel compatibility?

Post by Paul_VR6 »

All the newer ID 1k,1.3k,1.7k are all fuel. I don't use or recommend the 2k due to what you quoted which is only true for the 2k. Most guys don't know or want to think about what is in their fuel. If you need bigger than 1700 go to Moran low z and a driver box.
-Paul
1992 Corrado SLC 3.6 VR6 11.38@120 - MS3 Pro Ultimate - Microsquirt I/O - Can EGT - Racepak IQ3s
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jamies
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Re: Bosch CNG injectors fuel compatibility?

Post by jamies »

if your running methanol, make sure you get injectors with full stainless construction (ie pintle and seat)
the CNG injectors are rubber and WILL fail its just a matter of time. dont waste your $

ID injectors are nothing more than flow matched sets of bosch injectors
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Re: Bosch CNG injectors fuel compatibility?

Post by Paul_VR6 »

jamies wrote:
ID injectors are nothing more than flow matched sets of bosch injectors
The older ones, yes. The id1300/1700 were co developed with Bosch Motorsports and are not available elsewhere.

They are also one of the few companies to give us full injector characterization for ms3.
-Paul
1992 Corrado SLC 3.6 VR6 11.38@120 - MS3 Pro Ultimate - Microsquirt I/O - Can EGT - Racepak IQ3s
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jamies
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Re: Bosch CNG injectors fuel compatibility?

Post by jamies »

also ASNU injectors have been co-developed with bosch but also had to pass endurance testing to make sure they are no less reliable than OEM injectors.
ive used their 1500cc injectors (with atomisation plate) in a methanol applicaiton and they have stated they will honour their 12 month warranty with methanol also.
Janz99
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Re: Bosch CNG injectors fuel compatibility?

Post by Janz99 »

I have already purchased a set of the 210lb injectors. I will test them out and update this thread when I get a chance. Ive already talked to numorous guys who have run the 210's on methanol for the past 4 years without any trouble. I know the 160's have had heat associated issues, but those are not the injectors I am using. From all the research I have done, these injectors are the exact injector that ID uses for their 210lb injectors, and they say as long as you don't let the methanol sit for long periods of time they are fine.

Thanks again for all the feedback. I appreciate everyone's input!

Ryan
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Re: Bosch CNG injectors fuel compatibility?

Post by Rick Finsta »

Any updates? I'm looking at pulling the trigger on a set of these for a turbocharged E85 car.
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Re: Bosch CNG injectors fuel compatibility?

Post by Paul_VR6 »

They are fine on methanol but not mtbe or nitro blends
-Paul
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