Acceleration Ignition correction
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Acceleration Ignition correction
last week i had the opportunity to work with an Ecumaster Emu.
This ECU has a feature that is called "Acc.Ignition", picture attached.
It is obvious that tuning of the acceleration behavior of highly responsive 4 cyl. Engines, is only possible with a feature such this !
Yes ! maybe, in a lot of cases bad acceleration behavior is a result of bad tuning, but this cannot be a reason to omit this feature.
So my question is why the do the developers do not want to implement this feature ?
Georg
This ECU has a feature that is called "Acc.Ignition", picture attached.
It is obvious that tuning of the acceleration behavior of highly responsive 4 cyl. Engines, is only possible with a feature such this !
Yes ! maybe, in a lot of cases bad acceleration behavior is a result of bad tuning, but this cannot be a reason to omit this feature.
So my question is why the do the developers do not want to implement this feature ?
Georg
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Re: Acceleration Ignition correction
Why is it obvious that tuning 4 cylinder requires this?
All I see is a picture with no settings from zero.
All I see is a picture with no settings from zero.
Peter Florance
PF Tuning
81 BMW Euro 528i ESP Car
60-2 Wheel LS2 Coils, Low Z Inj
Co-Driver 1999 BMW E46 DSP car.
PF Tuning
81 BMW Euro 528i ESP Car
60-2 Wheel LS2 Coils, Low Z Inj
Co-Driver 1999 BMW E46 DSP car.
Re: Acceleration Ignition correction
Peter !Why is it obvious that tuning 4 cylinder requires this?
All I see is a picture with no settings from zero.
Is this a serious question ? Do you expect an answer ?
Georg
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Re: Acceleration Ignition correction
I do.ruzki wrote:Peter !Why is it obvious that tuning 4 cylinder requires this?
All I see is a picture with no settings from zero.
Is this a serious question ? Do you expect an answer ?
Georg
This feature is requested from time to time, but usually with more evidence than you have provided.
Often people requesting this feature are using MAF for load, and it reacts too late for ignition timing when changing load.
Why is the need obvious?
Peter Florance
PF Tuning
81 BMW Euro 528i ESP Car
60-2 Wheel LS2 Coils, Low Z Inj
Co-Driver 1999 BMW E46 DSP car.
PF Tuning
81 BMW Euro 528i ESP Car
60-2 Wheel LS2 Coils, Low Z Inj
Co-Driver 1999 BMW E46 DSP car.
Re: Acceleration Ignition correction
I'm curious about what would be different against setting the timing figure based on RPM and MAP?
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Re: Acceleration Ignition correction
@ Peter
@ DaveEFI
less torque during acceleration would be the effect
you have already answerd this question with this :Why is the need obvious?
.. because people are requesting it !This feature is requested from time to time, but usually with more evidence than you have provided.
@ DaveEFI
less torque during acceleration would be the effect
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Re: Acceleration Ignition correction
I didn't say I agreed with the evidence.
It would have been better if you have shown settings in your screen shot
It would have been better if you have shown settings in your screen shot
Peter Florance
PF Tuning
81 BMW Euro 528i ESP Car
60-2 Wheel LS2 Coils, Low Z Inj
Co-Driver 1999 BMW E46 DSP car.
PF Tuning
81 BMW Euro 528i ESP Car
60-2 Wheel LS2 Coils, Low Z Inj
Co-Driver 1999 BMW E46 DSP car.
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Re: Acceleration Ignition correction
ruzki,
Plenty of people have requested plenty of silly things over the years.
Posting unsubstantiated requests helps nobody.
So, you want less torque?? Well take your foot off the throttle? Acceleration is by definition more torque/power than is required to maintain the current velocity.
James
Plenty of people have requested plenty of silly things over the years.
Posting unsubstantiated requests helps nobody.
So, you want less torque?? Well take your foot off the throttle? Acceleration is by definition more torque/power than is required to maintain the current velocity.
James
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Re: Acceleration Ignition correction
I'm not even sure that is Ecumasters intended use for that feature. I'll ask someone I know who uses that product.
Peter Florance
PF Tuning
81 BMW Euro 528i ESP Car
60-2 Wheel LS2 Coils, Low Z Inj
Co-Driver 1999 BMW E46 DSP car.
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60-2 Wheel LS2 Coils, Low Z Inj
Co-Driver 1999 BMW E46 DSP car.
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Re: Acceleration Ignition correction
The ECUs I have seen that need that feature need it because they do not use every tooth on their crank wheels to schedule timing, and don't have any prediction, so spark comes late on accel. We use every tooth and have prediction.
Megasquirt is not for use on pollution controlled vehicles. Any advice I give is for off road use only.
Re: Acceleration Ignition correction
I want to make clear that i have not requested any feature ! Please read the first postPosting unsubstantiated requests helps nobody.
I got the impression that you people do not read anymore and jut switch on your "self-defense mode" .. but why ?
this post assures this
Again the question was:Plenty of people have requested plenty of silly things over the years.
So my question is why the do the developers do not want to implement this feature ?
Right !! and now tell this a womanSo, you want less torque?? Well take your foot off the throttle? Acceleration is by definition more torque/power than is required to maintain the current velocity.
I´m talking about highly responsive engine´s, 70mm inner Diameter Throttle Body on an 2.0 4cyl. for example, i bet non of us can push the gas pedal gentle enough to maintain a smooth acceleration from very low velocity.
ask me !I'm not even sure that is Ecumasters intended use for that feature. I'll ask someone I know who uses that product.
Re: Acceleration Ignition correction
First good answer ! Thank you !The ECUs I have seen that need that feature need it because they do not use every tooth on their crank wheels to schedule timing, and don't have any prediction, so spark comes late on accel. We use every tooth and have prediction.
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Re: Acceleration Ignition correction
I'm done here.ruzki wrote:I want to make clear that i have not requested any feature ! Please read the first postPosting unsubstantiated requests helps nobody.
I got the impression that you people do not read anymore and jut switch on your "self-defense mode" .. but why ?
this post assures thisAgain the question was:Plenty of people have requested plenty of silly things over the years.So my question is why the do the developers do not want to implement this feature ?Right !! and now tell this a womanSo, you want less torque?? Well take your foot off the throttle? Acceleration is by definition more torque/power than is required to maintain the current velocity.
I´m talking about highly responsive engine´s, 70mm inner Diameter Throttle Body on an 2.0 4cyl. for example, i bet non of us can push the gas pedal gentle enough to maintain a smooth acceleration from very low velocity.
ask me !I'm not even sure that is Ecumasters intended use for that feature. I'll ask someone I know who uses that product.
Peter Florance
PF Tuning
81 BMW Euro 528i ESP Car
60-2 Wheel LS2 Coils, Low Z Inj
Co-Driver 1999 BMW E46 DSP car.
PF Tuning
81 BMW Euro 528i ESP Car
60-2 Wheel LS2 Coils, Low Z Inj
Co-Driver 1999 BMW E46 DSP car.
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Re: Acceleration Ignition correction
Yep, troll alert.
James
James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk
My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
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Re: Acceleration Ignition correction
I don´t think that i deserve to be called troll, just because i asked questions wich are not welcome ... but Ok ! i´m out ! ..byeYep, troll alert.
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Re: Acceleration Ignition correction
The only good explanation I've seen for this feature - when not being used as a correction for an ECU with a second rate wheel decoder - is to reduce driveline shock loads by making throttle response softer.
I have also seen a lot of baloney reasons people have asked for this.
I have also seen a lot of baloney reasons people have asked for this.
Matt Cramer -1966 Dodge Dart slant six running on MS3X
Re: Acceleration Ignition correction
You asked a question without giving the reasons why you though such a feature was needed?ruzki wrote:I don´t think that i deserve to be called troll, just because i asked questions wich are not welcome ... but Ok ! i´m out ! ..byeYep, troll alert.
If you have a particular problem MS related, plenty of experts here will help with it. Including those who actually write the software, who I, for one, am incredibly grateful to. Not many products on the market where this is the case.
There is always more than one way to skin a cat.
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Re: Acceleration Ignition correction
Just want to reinforce what Dave has already pointed out here. Where else in the automotive industry (or elsewhere for that matter) can you get direct access to the developers??? That ain't gonna happen anywhere else except on this forum, I don't think!!!
Ken
Dave,
Are you back to skinning cats again?
Ken
Dave,
Are you back to skinning cats again?
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Re: Acceleration Ignition correction
It is meant to soften snatchy throttle response especially on responsive engine with manual transmissions to soften driveline shocks.
It can also prevent pinging when hitting the throttle hard after shifts, just by momentarily retarding ignition.
Most OEM systems use this also.
Probably most engines won't benefit from it, but I also have asked for this "tip in retard" function.
It can also prevent pinging when hitting the throttle hard after shifts, just by momentarily retarding ignition.
Most OEM systems use this also.
Probably most engines won't benefit from it, but I also have asked for this "tip in retard" function.
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Re: Acceleration Ignition correction
Ah, I misunderstood the request. I was thinking that people wanted more advance when RPM is increasing faster. People have asked for that, and I've always thought of it as a band-aid for poorly written wheel decoders.
TPS rate of increase-based retard of ignition timing IMHO has merit, though again it is at least partially to account for the ECU and rest of the system's inability to keep up with fast increases in load. In other words the physical system changes faster than the ECU can sense, so you add a fudge factor to retard a little faster than the MAP changing in the manifold, the sensors ability to sense the change, the lag factor's filtering of the change, and the table lookup based on all that allow you to do otherwise.
In my experience this can largely be tuned around on MAP/Alpha-N/ITB-mode cars by getting a stable MAP signal and then getting rid of lag factor. With MAF I can see it being a bigger issue, which would explain why the factories do it.
Ken
TPS rate of increase-based retard of ignition timing IMHO has merit, though again it is at least partially to account for the ECU and rest of the system's inability to keep up with fast increases in load. In other words the physical system changes faster than the ECU can sense, so you add a fudge factor to retard a little faster than the MAP changing in the manifold, the sensors ability to sense the change, the lag factor's filtering of the change, and the table lookup based on all that allow you to do otherwise.
In my experience this can largely be tuned around on MAP/Alpha-N/ITB-mode cars by getting a stable MAP signal and then getting rid of lag factor. With MAF I can see it being a bigger issue, which would explain why the factories do it.
Ken
Megasquirt is not for use on pollution controlled vehicles. Any advice I give is for off road use only.