36-1+1 COP request

Pimp_daddy_Patty · Post by **Pimp_daddy_Patty** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:30 pm

Is there a possibility that COP could be added to the NGC 26-2+2 code?

UnaClocker · Post by **UnaClocker** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:15 pm

Seems like there should be some way of saying "I'm using this primary wheel" and I have a secondary wheel that looks like this:..... So you can do COP on any wheel if you have a second trigger setup with it.
Maybe that's not do-able..
On a second note.. I put 50 miles on the car today. Starts just fine once it's been started once that day. IAC misbehavior drove me batty, but I'll stop flogging that dead horse. The wheel decoder works GREAT, the car has never run this smoothly on MS2 before. I could not detect any misses at any RPM. Love it.

Post by **jsmcortina** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:52 pm

UnaClocker wrote:Seems like there should be some way of saying "I'm using this primary wheel" and I have a secondary wheel that looks like this:..... So you can do COP on any wheel if you have a second trigger setup with it.

The uneven main wheels usually have quirky second wheels too, which means they need special code writing. If they utilised a single cam signal then the simple code would have been possible.

On 36-1+1, I don't think that I have the data for the cam signal. If you can find diagrams, please post them. Without that I can't write any code.

James

baneonrt · Post by **baneonrt** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:03 pm

jsmcortina wrote:
UnaClocker wrote:Seems like there should be some way of saying "I'm using this primary wheel" and I have a secondary wheel that looks like this:..... So you can do COP on any wheel if you have a second trigger setup with it.
The uneven main wheels usually have quirky second wheels too, which means they need special code writing. If they utilised a single cam signal then the simple code would have been possible.

On 36-1+1, I don't think that I have the data for the cam signal. If you can find diagrams, please post them. Without that I can't write any code.

James

Here you go.

http://steve.baneon.org/misc/Megasquirt ... _Crank.jpg

Steve

Post by **jsmcortina** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:12 pm

That looks do-able. The OEM can apparently run the engine even if the the crank or cam sensors fail. To achieve that would be a LOT more work.

How about the 6 and 8 cyl timing diagrams too ?

James

baneonrt · Post by **baneonrt** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:18 pm

jsmcortina wrote:That looks do-able. The OEM can apparently run the engine even if the the crank or cam sensors fail. To achieve that would be a LOT more work.

How about the 6 and 8 cyl timing diagrams too ?

James

That's all I have unfortunately. I'll see if I can track down where I got it.

Steve

Pimp_daddy_Patty · Post by **Pimp_daddy_Patty** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 3:56 am

The 36-1+1 has the same cam signal as the neon motor (to the best of my knowledge)

Post by **jsmcortina** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 5:10 am

Pimp_daddy_Patty wrote:The 36-1+1 has the same cam signal as the neon motor (to the best of my knowledge)

Check the diagram above and the 420A/Neon image on the MS2/Extra site. The cam signal is quite different.

If I'm going to do some code work on the 36-1+1 (actually 36-2+2 but I named it wrong) then I'd like to have the V6 and V8 patterns too so I can do it all at once. From the snippet of service manual I have, the patterns are the same across all variants, but the mounting angles of the wheels may be different. This is the information I am lacking.

James

boost junkie · Post by **boost junkie** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:00 am

All the info I have: http://megasquirt.texasneons.org/neon_crank/ngc/

There appears to be a 6 cylinder cam signal but its not very detailed. I'll try to find an 8 cylinder...

Post by **jsmcortina** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:22 am

The 4cyl cam pattern posted yesterday seems to have a totally different concept to the 6cyl one (which looks almost the same as the Subara 6/7 cam pattern ?!)

Could someone take a look at their NGC cam wheel and confirm that the pattern is accurate?

James

Pimp_daddy_Patty · Post by **Pimp_daddy_Patty** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:31 pm

I wish I could but I would need a scope to read the signal. The cam sensor is magnet operated.

Pimp_daddy_Patty · Post by **Pimp_daddy_Patty** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:31 pm

I wish I could but I would need a scope to read the signal. The cam wheel is just a magnet.

UnaClocker · Post by **UnaClocker** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:17 pm

Yeah, if it's anything like the earlier years (and I suspect that at least the design is) there is just a magnet at the end of the cam. No teeth per say.

Pimp_daddy_Patty · Post by **Pimp_daddy_Patty** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:48 pm

The magnet and sensor look identical on my 2.0L, '01 2.4 as well as my SRT-4 NGC motor. The cams themselves are physically interchangeable. I spoke about this with a buddy of mine, it would be cool to use Spark C and D as outputs for injectors for sequential injection. I dunno how manageable that would be in the software though.

Post by **jsmcortina** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:20 pm

Using spark C and D for sequential fuel is technically difficult. Jean Belanger is working on code to do sequential using the PWM outputs (and requiring an MS2 card mod.)

James

Jon k · Post by **Jon k** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:01 pm

jsmcortina wrote:Using spark C and D for sequential fuel is technically difficult. Jean Belanger is working on code to do sequential using the PWM outputs (and requiring an MS2 card mod.)

James

How many channels would this offer total?

racingmini_mtl · Post by **racingmini_mtl** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:13 pm

Jon k wrote:
jsmcortina wrote:Using spark C and D for sequential fuel is technically difficult. Jean Belanger is working on code to do sequential using the PWM outputs (and requiring an MS2 card mod.)

James
How many channels would this offer total?

This will provide 2 additional injector channels for a total of 4 but will remove the PWM capability. This will allow full sequential for up to 4 cylinders and semi-sequential for 6 and 8 cylinders.

Jean

Post by **jsmcortina** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:20 pm

Jon k wrote:
jsmcortina wrote:Using spark C and D for sequential fuel is technically difficult. Jean Belanger is working on code to do sequential using the PWM outputs (and requiring an MS2 card mod.)

James
How many channels would this offer total?

Four. He is (or at least was) planning on using the remaining output compare channels. It would only be possible to go higher if rotary support and possibly all spark support was removed as those features are tied into the remaining timers.
There are eight timers on the chip
TC0 - main tach in
TC1 - injector 1 (hardware output compare)
TC2 - ignition out (bit bang) **
TC3 - injector 2 (hardware output compare)
TC4 - rotary ignition out (bit bang) **
TC5 - second tach in (or EDIS out)
TC6 - dwell (bit bang)
TC7 - rotary dwell (bit bang)

** would need moving or removing to support 4 cyl sequential fuel.

James

racingmini_mtl · Post by **racingmini_mtl** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:33 pm

jsmcortina wrote:
Jon k wrote:
jsmcortina wrote:Using spark C and D for sequential fuel is technically difficult. Jean Belanger is working on code to do sequential using the PWM outputs (and requiring an MS2 card mod.)

James
How many channels would this offer total?
Four. He is (or at least was) planning on using the remaining output compare channels. It would only be possible to go higher if rotary support and possibly all spark support was removed as those features are tied into the remaining timers.
There are eight timers on the chip
TC0 - main tach in
TC1 - injector 1 (hardware output compare)
TC2 - ignition out (bit bang) **
TC3 - injector 2 (hardware output compare)
TC4 - rotary ignition out (bit bang) **
TC5 - second tach in (or EDIS out)
TC6 - dwell (bit bang)
TC7 - rotary dwell (bit bang)

** would need moving or removing to support 4 cyl sequential fuel.

James

The timers have been reconfigured this way:

TC0 - main tach in
TC1 - injector 1 (hardware output compare)
TC2 - rotary dwell (bit bang) OR injector 3 (hardware output compare) *
TC3 - injector 2 (hardware output compare)
TC4 - rotary ignition out (bit bang) OR injector 4 (hardware output compare) *
TC5 - second tach in (or EDIS out)
TC6 - dwell (bit bang)
TC7 - ignition out (bit bang) **

* If sequential mode is selected then the timers are used for the additional channels. If not, they are used for rotary ignition. Sequential mode is not compatible with rotary ignition.

** was moved from TC2 to TC7

I had to move things around to make it possible to use the PWM pins for injector outputs. This also means that rotary ignition cannot be used at the same time as sequential injection.

Jean

Post by **jsmcortina** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:37 pm

Jean's code is a branch of MS2/Extra (3.0) which we branched from the 2.0 code somewhere around June/July? We'll need to cross port the many changes we've made to the 2.0 code since then when we have "finished" with it.

James