MS2/Extra 2.0 beta 15 (20071104)

Post by **muythaibxr** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:38 am

Changed in this beta:

1) Makefile changes to build the microsquirt s19 along with the ms2 s19
2) Support for IAC motors added to PID closed-loop idle algorithm.
3) New error mode having to do with twin trigger added
4) Microsquirt option added to firmware download batch file.

NOTE: As far as I can tell, the PID IAC code is working the way I want. It seems like the PID numbers are a bit more sensitive though. I'm sure there will be minor bugs found, and I know I need to document the settings, but this feature should be ready for beta testing.

Once we're sure that PID IAC is working as it should, ms2/extra 2.0 is going to go in to "Release Candidate" status. This means only major bugs will be fixed before release, and no new features will be added. Any minor nits, and new features will go into ms2/extra 2.1 (which I'm condering making 2.5 due to the number of new features we're planning).

The beta is here:

http://www.msextra.com/ms2extra/files/b ... 071104.zip

Ken

hassmaschine · Post by **hassmaschine** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:44 am

were you still changing the PID units to .1% in 2.0 or is that waiting for 2.1?

Post by **muythaibxr** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:39 pm

It's already been done since at least last beta.

Ken

Post by **jsmcortina** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:46 pm

On the Microsquirt mode that Ken mentioned - while the code compiles as two versions, the Microsquirt mode is incomplete. I have done some work on it during the last week but these changes are not finished and therefore not included in this beta.

James

Post by **muythaibxr** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:06 pm

After speaking with James, there are a few more bugs to finish fixing, so there will likely be more betas for that as well.

Jon k · Post by **Jon k** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:29 pm

I am thoroughly enjoying the progress guys and wish I knew more about code to help. I look forward each week to new releases!

Keithg · Post by **Keithg** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 4:50 pm

loaded and burned. No odd behavior on the drive in to work.

KeithG

Post by **muythaibxr** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:11 pm

Thanks Keith.

UnaClocker · Post by **UnaClocker** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:48 pm

Seems there's nothing in the documentation on setting up any kind of closed loop idle control yet.. So this probably isn't a bug, it's probably me.. So here is my datalog and MSQ.
I'm using the new stepper IAC closed loop idle control. I set open to 60, and closed to 155. 60 is about 3200rpm.. The car started up at a fair rpm and quickly idled down like it should. (fully warmed up already) That's all good. But when I step on the gas, and get off of it, the IAC doesn't move, then when the idle returns to idle speed, the IAC THEN decides to open ALL THE WAY, and about 2 seconds later finally takes a couple of jumps down to the closed position. See the datalog.. Not sure if it logs IAC position, but you can get a general idea from TPS and RPM..

UnaClocker · Post by **UnaClocker** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:49 pm

Ok, I changed the open duty cycle (steps) to 100, up from 60.. That dropped the max RPM it's giving me to about 2grand. Much more reasonable. The car starts up at that setting, and then settles down from there. I started the car from cold and the RPM would jump from fully open to fully closed.. I imagine that's my PID settings doing that? I changed the PID delay from 5 seconds to 0.. 5 seconds seemed a bit much before PID kicks in? Like I said, no manual for this, I'm kind of guessing here.
Since I felt the PID was my problem, I changed P from 20 to 15.. Seemed to completely kill the closed loop control. I'll try 19 or something next.

hassmaschine · Post by **hassmaschine** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:26 pm

increase the RPM threshold. my idle is ~1k and my idle RPM threshold is ~350rpm. it works better than the stock engine's idle control, believe it or not.

I also wrote up a rather lengthy method for tuning the PID loop itself somewhere - i'll see if I can find it. using datalogs and a formula instead of random guess and check. got mine set pretty much dead on that way.

UnaClocker · Post by **UnaClocker** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:54 pm

What is the RPM threshold? If your idle is 1000, how does 350 relate to that?

Post by **muythaibxr** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:13 pm

The threshold is the amount above the target rpm you have to be before PID will turn off/on.

So if your target is 800 rpms, and that threshold is set to 300, you have to be at 1100 rpms before PID will kick in, or turn off (in the case that you step on the throttle).

When you let off the gas and idle speed goes way up, it's because your dashpot setting is probably wrong... that dashpot setting should be the number of steps to subtract from the last-known good value when you let off the throttle.

Oh, and as I said above:

...and I know I need to document the settings, but this feature should be ready for beta testing.

Ken

UnaClocker · Post by **UnaClocker** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:22 pm

I only have dashpot set to 3.. When you view the datalog it goes full open.. But I think it may be PID related there.. I hope..

Post by **muythaibxr** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:16 pm

Ahh, I think that might be a bug, I saw it once but couldn't get it to happen again.

I'll see if I can get it to happen again here and post a fix when I get a chance, hopefully tomorrow evening.

Ken

UnaClocker · Post by **UnaClocker** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:26 am

Ok, cool. In the meantime, I'll take a stab at commuting with the thing.

I may just resort to turning off the IAC if it won't behave.

UnaClocker · Post by **UnaClocker** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:07 pm

Yuck.. Didn't like it much. Let's start at the beginning.. I mentioned once that if I just start the car right up, the IAC works fine, but if I turn on the ignition and wait a couple seconds, THEN start, the IAC is stuck open.. Well my remote start does just that, turns the ignition on for about 3 seconds, THEN cranks the car over.. So the thing was idling at about 2500rpm for 10 minutes straight. I get out there and fire up the laptop. The radiator fan came on about then and the car finally idled down to the proper RPM.. No idea what was up with that? It was a good 30f past the last RPM bin I have set. At 180f I have it set to be fully warmed up and idling at about 900. And the radiator fan doesn't come on till 210..
Ok.. So I go to leave work today, start the car myself, and it kind of does what it should.. But the computer couldn't seem to find a happy spot with the IAC. Kept jumping from full open to full closed. PID problem? Wish it would slowly work it's way up, not just JUMP.. (Watching on the realtime display) Then on the commute home.. I let off the gas to decellerate and the bloody thing opens! I'm at 2500rpm, shouldn't it leave the thing alone till the RPM's get within 300 of the target RPM? (Did I mention this whole closed loop thing needs documentation? heh..) So I get off the freeway and the car has misplaced the closed position somehow.. Realtime says 160, which would normally be closed enough that the engine would stall, but it's idling at 1500rpm.. PID can't help that problem.. I shut the engine off and restarted, only got me about 300rpm less.. Still not closed. There's really no reason for it to lose it's place, I have the resistors jumpered, I have the step time all the way up to 10ms.. Maybe it won't be such an issue when the thing isn't jumping up and down rapidly. But you'd think a fresh re-start would find the fully closed position. I'm really trying to give this stepper the benefit of the doubt.
Anyways.. Hope that helps.. Don't tell me it's my setup, I'll just stop testing if you think that. I posted my MSQ yesterday..

Post by **muythaibxr** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:37 am

I think your setup has a problem (just kidding).

I think it's mostly settings, although the opening all the way problem when you let off the throttle is probably a bug.

I would suggest just using the IAC for warmup until I've had a chance to review your msq, document the settings, and fix the bug. You're just going to end up frustrating yourself otherwise.

Ken

hassmaschine · Post by **hassmaschine** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:43 am

updated to beta 15 from beta 10 last night - very smooth idle. I hope you can get the stepper IAC valves to work as well as PWM does for me, for their sake!

UnaClocker · Post by **UnaClocker** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:47 pm

Cool cool, I'll do that.