MS2/Extra 2.0 beta 15 (20071104)

andyducati · Post by **andyducati** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:27 am

Had a go and loaded up beta 15. All seems ok but I need help with the settings for closed loop stepper control.
Simply, what do each of the settings do and mean? And what on earth is PID?
Ive been able to get it working to some extent but its not great. The RPM rises suddenly if the RPM drops below the RPM target curve.
But otherwise great release. Keep up the good work fellas.

Andy

Post by **muythaibxr** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:10 pm

I'll be documenting the settings soon.

The PID acronym stands for Proportional-Integral-Differential, it's a type of control loop that's used to take feedback from a system, and use it to control the system in a desired manner.

Generally you want P to be high, as that's the "immediate" correction.

So if the target rpm is 800 rpm, and you're at 1600, and you have the P value set at 50, it'll change the valve position to try to bring RPM down by 400 rpms.

I is the integral correction, and is used to cause small errors to build up and cause a change... so if you have your P term set low, and that gets you to around 900 rpms with a target of 800, eventually, each time the loop runs, that 100 rpm error will build up. With an I term set, that will eventually build up enough to cause a small change.

D is used to slow down the correction as it gets closer to the target, but having a D that's too high can also cause instability.

A full explanation can be found on wikipedia.

Ken

Post by **muythaibxr** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 2:04 pm

Alright, I took a look at the generated assembly for one of the comparisons for closed loop IAC control, and it didn't look quite right, so I changed the comparison a bit to make the asm look better.

I'll be testing this today/tomorrow, and releasing tomorrow.

Ken

max@zl2max.gen.nz · Post by **max@zl2max.gen.nz** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:39 am

Hi Guys

Been busy do other things for a few months but now back...

Anyway grabbed this beta, but couldn't get it in, now did I see somewhere in the past few months that the S19 is now too big to fit on one page or something.

Somebody able to give me some hints ??

Thanks

Max

Post by **jsmcortina** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:14 am

max@zl2max.gen.nz wrote:Hi Guys

Anyway grabbed this beta, but couldn't get it in,

Be sure to use the firmware downloader batch file supplied with the beta. Do not attempt to load with the normal firmware downloader.

James

spyro · Post by **spyro** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:43 am

tested the code today with a iac for the first time and its working ok i have a problem were sometines the steps stay at max(for a second ) and the rpm drops to about 500rpm but i think its more the pid setings
since its my first time using the code it needs more tuning to be perfect
but its alot of a improvment since i wasnt using any idle control

Asteris · Post by **Asteris** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:16 pm

Seems to be that IAC stays always on on that beta, as is gets hot within 10 minutes of use. In fact, it stays powered even when i select on/off valve or PWM valve from the idle control menu and configurator. I can also verify this from the Tuning-realtime display, where Voltage varies from 9 to 12V all the time (using a 12V 1A AC powerpack).

I'll have to flashback to an earlier beta, to verify this.

Asteris · Post by **Asteris** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:24 pm

Yeap, beta 13 is ok. Voltage stays at 12.20V all the time (when set at IAC-only moving), starts to vary down to 9V after i flash beta 15 and at any idle setting (on/off, moving only, PWM, closed loop...).

IAC controller stays on all the time.

UnaClocker · Post by **UnaClocker** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:59 pm

I had a bit of trouble turning off my IAC as well. I think it's off now.. Haven't done any real investigating.. But at least it stopped moving.

max@zl2max.gen.nz · Post by **max@zl2max.gen.nz** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:06 pm

OK, sorted that out....

Grabbed the new version and used the command line option and jumperless
stuff now loaded and running megatune, so off to look see

So even the new ( version 200 ) will not handle these in the graphical
interface ???

Thanks

Max

jsmcortina wrote:

*max@zl2max.gen.nz wrote:*
Hi Guys

Anyway grabbed this beta, but couldn't get it in,

Be sure to use the firmware downloader batch file supplied with the
beta. Do not attempt to load with the normal firmware downloader.

James

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spyro · Post by **spyro** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:21 am

well i was using the iac always on but i dont know why after a while it stopped working lol, tested the iac and its ok
since its the first time i use it it could the the wiring , im going to check it next weekend

Asteris · Post by **Asteris** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:36 am

Mine gets awfully hot if it is powered on all the time. It stays cool when set at moving only, until beta 14. At beta 15 it gets hot whatever setting i use.

Post by **muythaibxr** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:59 am

I might've messed up the code that turns it off, but I'm fairly certain that's not the case.

In any case I'll check when I get home.

Ken

Keithg · Post by **Keithg** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:12 am

Ken,

Hey, I tried semi sequential with my setup this morning and it ran *very* rich. I had to keep backing off ReqFuel to keep it from dying at idle (AFR<11) When I turn off semi sequential, it runs normally. This behavior is with 2 squirts simultaneous. I did not experiment with 1 squirt simultaneous.

KeithG

Post by **muythaibxr** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:50 am

I'm pretty sure it's working the way it should, but I'll check at some point to make sure.

I believe there are others here using semi-seq who have it working in the later firmwares.

Ken

vlopsahl · Post by **vlopsahl** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:09 am

This sounds a bit like the problem I have. Never got semi-sequential to work, so I have just been waiting a while. I use 1 squirt simultaneous ore 2 squirts alternating. I have wired my injectors as described in other posts. Think the last time I tried semi-seq. was with beta 14 but my engine just stalls (too rich I think). I am not able to use any more squirts as my idle pw is 1,2 ms. I asked about this before, but I do not think I got an answer…am I supposed to use 1 squirt simultaneous when I turn on semi-seq?

Thanks
Vegard

Post by **muythaibxr** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:06 am

It should work no matter what.

It might be squirting more often than it should, so I'll verify one way or the other.

I only tested with 4 squirts alternating, and that looked good.

Ken

KaPower · Post by **KaPower** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:34 am

I also could not get semi-sequential to work. Not Sure if it was how I configures it though, as there is no documentation on how it works.

Post by **muythaibxr** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:09 pm

Basically you just specify a trigger number...

On a 4 cyl COP there are 4 triggers, wasted spark, there are 2, etc...

It will start the sequence on that trigger.

Ken

Keithg · Post by **Keithg** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:24 pm

So, with 4 cyl COP, the valid values are 1,2,3,4 and for 4 cyl wasted spark, the valid entries are 1,2?

KeithG

On Nov 14, 2007 3:09 PM, muythaibxr wrote:

Basically you just specify a trigger number...

On a 4 cyl COP there are 4 triggers, wasted spark, there are 2, etc...

It will start the sequence on that trigger.

Ken