MS2 Beta: No inj pulses during cranking

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UnaClocker
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Post by UnaClocker »

Yeah, I'd never heard of that one either. I am in advanced mode, and I can't get to that option, it's greyed out.
Brian
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Post by jsmcortina »

Those options are from MS2 base and have been largely replaced in MS2/Extra. They are certainly available for EDIS and a little for "simple trigger" aka distributor mode.

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Post by AbeFM »

Philip Lochner wrote:FWIW: Was investigating injection on every tach vs alternate tachs when I discovered the absence of injector pulses during cranking.

I observed the following:
Cranking RPM = 400 / Every event

I start by switching MS/stim power on and rpm = 0
- Fuel pump comes on and goes out after 2 secs. Then I start increasing rpms.
- RPMs rise on RPM gauge, FP comes on, cranking indicator on MT comes on, Synced indicator comes on but stim I1 and I2 LEDs don’t come on and O’scope does not show fuel pulses either.
- Fuel pulses only commence above cranking rpm (400rpm).
- When I then reduce rpm, fuel pulses continue below cranking rpm.
- Taking rpms down to 0, the same as above happens.

The same happens with injections on alternate events.
I've seen this same behavior, though I didn't type it up so nicely. I put it like this:
AbeFM wrote:The temp guage was a few degrees off, so I change the 99*C to 77, burn, and it gets to entry ~120 and freezes. Eventually, I power cycle the MS, and it's ok. Old values, I guess. Do it again, and it froze around the same spot, but not at it (116 I think). Two or three times total, then I restart MT, and it worked fine.

Car still started.

Move the idle settings around a bit (idle target duty cycles). Shut it off, start it. It runs, but like... a stumble at like 2k. So I get the stim: NO FUEL ON CRANKING!

This is another issue I've seen people complain about before. I could move the cranking limit up and down, and the no fuel followed. Cranking pulse table is fine, but it's "0 ms" reported pulse width while cranking, though the same RPM delivers fuel if not cranking. Loaded the old msq, no better. Reflash. Another 40 minutes.

Getting VERY frustrated. It's easy to make the car run, but every time I try to tune it, the whole thing falls apart and I have to start over from scratch.

I have the "good" (which doesn't fix it) msq, and the "bad" one.
James wrote:I loaded your MSQ and it works for me. At a displayed 85rpm and in cranking mode the two injector lights flash.

See http://www.youtube.com/user/jsmcortina in a bit.
I think this has to do with the weird flashing issue, it's a strange behavior effecting the drop-out of outputs. I'm seeing the same thing now, anytime the motor in in cranking (started there, came there from not running, or gets back there from running) there's no fuel. I've seen this a couple times before. I never saw a solution to this in the thread about it, the topic just sort of dried up. My guess now is that the ecu was flashed clean at some point in the troubleshooting, and the issue went away.

James wrote: 36-1 + 2nd trig will typically take twice as long to sync as 36-1 only because it must wait for the cam signal before it can sync.

James
This may be a side issue, but it really seems on bank-fired engines, that you could run as soon as you know where TDC is, and after one or two revolutions you would sync. When I'm at TDC, fire the plug, when I'm at BDC, fire the other. If you fire cyl 1 when it's 4's turn, the motor will get going, and save another few seconds of cranking. Two crank teeth and a cam signal (either or) should be enough to sync. Same with missing tooth. A few teeth to establish a speed (2 if you're clever), and a missing one, and you know where you are. When the cam pulse comes, it comes.
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Post by AbeFM »

Oh, well, here's some news - enough to make me look bad, but perhaps a sigh of relief from a bug-hunting point of view:
I can repeatably go back and forth from fueling on cranking to not by loading "initial" verses "moreburns".

Initial is from a clean flash, some of the Miata trigger settings, etc. More burns just has most of my miata settings, burnt more things like thermister tables, etc.

Maybe someone with a bigger brain can look at these two msq's (b18) and tell me why one fuels during cranking and one does not.

Thanks!!
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Post by AbeFM »

update!
So, on James' suggestion, I checked my flood clear variable, but it was fine. Doing a file compare on the one that works and the one that doesn't, here's all I've noticed (up fro VE and spark tables, etc)

line 339: <constant cols="7" name="psCondition" rows="2"
line 40: 60 60 60 62 60(62) 60 60

So it's 62 in the new version.

Also line 357, in the section
<constant name="psEnabled" rows="7" units="on/off">
there's a 1 instead of a 0
362 in section: <constant cols="7" name="psHysteresis" rows="2
0 0 0 80 0(250) 0 0

basically, the whole PS section has one value which is much higher than the value in the working version. What's PS? I don't know.

lastly, smap and fmap have a few differences.

All I do know is switching files to the old version makes fueling on cranking work. All my tuning is on the later file.
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AbeFM
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Post by AbeFM »

Oh, god. All my fault. Sorry people.

I thought since loading one MSQ made it work, and loading another made it stop, that the issue was in there.

One MSQ has different values for TPS than the calibrated one. So being over 70% of 700 counts can happen in a place where you're not over 70% of 1023 counts.

Yes, it was flood clear mode. This all happened cause I decided to do my testing on the bench instead of on the car. It also explains why the car had been starting on some of the interum msq's - even though they were broken on the simulator. I just figured it was starting on the priming pulse.

Guess I'll go drive. :-)
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