MS2/Extra 2.0 beta 17 (20071227)

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muythaibxr
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Post by muythaibxr »

Keithg wrote:
Will do. I think I did this morning, but it was pretty quick. I'll check again. How were they changed? I get no RPM and no Sync with 'dual wheel plus missing' and '2nd trigger falling'
I believe It's in the release notes in the first post... but basically you have to set whether the second trigger is cam or crank speed, etc...

Just go look at the settings there, it should be pretty obvious when you look.

Ken
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Post by muythaibxr »

matt_fulghum wrote:For the new PID pwm idle values, what would the range be for a baseline on each setting?
I'd start with something like 100,20,0 or similar, and adjust from there... with a 200ms control interval.
So far, I've had to keep the idle pretty high to keep the car from stalling or at least lugging when turning the wheel or pressing in the brakes fast, and I assume PID idle should help both of those issues?
It might... depending on your settings, it should respond to increased load pretty well, but I don't know how it'll respond to things like turning the wheel or pressing the brakes. It'll probably drop slightly before catching it, so during these types of things, I'd expect some oscillation.

Ken
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Post by matt_fulghum »

alright, thanks :)

I have P at 90% right now, but I'll try 100% in just a moment.

The issue I'm having right now is that it drops down to the correct idle speed just fine, but when I push in the brakes or turn the wheel, or turn on the lights really fast, the rpm dips quite a bit, and pretty quickly (lightweight flywheel), and the PID loop doesn't notice this until maybe a few seconds afterwards, if at all. If the idle drops to 850 (when I want 1000), it just stays there, rather than doing anything?

EDIT: didn't see the second part of your post, sorry. Because of my lightweight flywheel, the rpm drops pretty quickly, so what I might end up doing is on my interceptor board for the idle control I'll route my power steering and braking lines to inputs on the chip, and right there boost the duty cycle a bit, for quick recovery. I'm pretty sure this is what most ECUs do, right?
Last edited by matt_fulghum on Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Peter Florance »

Tomorrow I'm going to try to migrate from MS1 Extra (we had MS2 Extra on the race car, but it's in race-car-heaven now) to this beta.

does this version fuel similarly to MS1 or will it take a lot of re-tuning?

I'm trying to budget some time before dinner with SO.

I'll also check for stable release

Thanks!
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Post by matt_fulghum »

excellent... I've got P at 100, I at 17, and D at 2, and things seem to be working pretty well with just a little oscillation. With I at 20 it just would not lock on to a certain rpm... it would oscillate with a period of about 10 seconds, up and down and up and down, but it seems to be okay now. Still doesn't react terribly fast sometimes though, especially for very small rpm changes
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Post by JeroenBosma »

I did not manage to get it right. Also had RPM drop-outs with trigger prediction on. With trigger-prediction off it runs like a charm. I did not do extensive testing but the problem was very annoying in Beta 16.

The new firmware somehow messed up my VE tables (16x16). The upper 4 rows and right 4 row values (RPM, MAP and variables) were not right at all. After a remap it all seems to be ok.
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Post by muythaibxr »

matt_fulghum wrote:alright, thanks :)

I have P at 90% right now, but I'll try 100% in just a moment.

The issue I'm having right now is that it drops down to the correct idle speed just fine, but when I push in the brakes or turn the wheel, or turn on the lights really fast, the rpm dips quite a bit, and pretty quickly (lightweight flywheel), and the PID loop doesn't notice this until maybe a few seconds afterwards, if at all. If the idle drops to 850 (when I want 1000), it just stays there, rather than doing anything?

EDIT: didn't see the second part of your post, sorry. Because of my lightweight flywheel, the rpm drops pretty quickly, so what I might end up doing is on my interceptor board for the idle control I'll route my power steering and braking lines to inputs on the chip, and right there boost the duty cycle a bit, for quick recovery. I'm pretty sure this is what most ECUs do, right?
Yeah, that's what they do... It should be able to recover pretty well after a second or two, you may need to bump up the "I" term as well, or decrease the control interval (increasing the PID loop speed).

Ken
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Post by muythaibxr »

Peter Florance wrote:Tomorrow I'm going to try to migrate from MS1 Extra (we had MS2 Extra on the race car, but it's in race-car-heaven now) to this beta.

does this version fuel similarly to MS1 or will it take a lot of re-tuning?

I'm trying to budget some time before dinner with SO.

I'll also check for stable release

Thanks!
Most likely you'll have to retune significantly.

Ken
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Post by matt_fulghum »

muythaibxr wrote: decrease the control interval (increasing the PID loop speed).
What's the lowest setting that the control interval can go to, and is there any reason NOT to run it faster?

EDIT: Also, could it be that the lockout is stopping the PID loop from reacting to the dips from the brakes/power steering? If I hold in the brake pedal, the idle dips to about 900 and then sticks at about 940 rpm (with a 1000 rpm target), and the PWM percent doesn't change.
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Re: MS2/Extra 2.0 beta 17 (20071227)

Post by jsmcortina »

Philip Lochner wrote:I change too many parameters in the ini file that its a great effort to change to a new ini file.
I think that explains the problem with VE table 2.
EDIT: I can't have saved my changes! I know I fixed that. It is only a display issue though - the code is using the correct load value internally.

James
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Post by muythaibxr »

matt_fulghum wrote:
muythaibxr wrote: decrease the control interval (increasing the PID loop speed).
What's the lowest setting that the control interval can go to, and is there any reason NOT to run it faster?

EDIT: Also, could it be that the lockout is stopping the PID loop from reacting to the dips from the brakes/power steering? If I hold in the brake pedal, the idle dips to about 900 and then sticks at about 940 rpm (with a 1000 rpm target), and the PWM percent doesn't change.
The lockout code is just to keep you from getting "locked out" of the PID loop due to RPMs not dropping into the PID range... What are your settings for the lockout? I guess if it's not set right, it could cause problems like this.

If you're sticking at 940 rpm and the target is 1000, then you're close enough that only a higher I term is going to make the PWM % change. If setting this term higher causes oscillation, then most likely you're as close as you're going to get due to the fact that we only have control of the valve to 1%. A 1% change would likely take the speed far enough over 1000 rpm to eventually cause the error to build up and start an oscillation.

The only reason not to run the loop faster is that it'll get REALLY hard to tune if it runs too fast.

Ken
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Post by matt_fulghum »

I thought the resolution was down to .1% increments? or was that changed again with this beta?
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Post by hassmaschine »

matt_fulghum wrote:I thought the resolution was down to .1% increments? or was that changed again with this beta?
that's the resolution for the PID terms themselves, the valve itself still only has 1% steps.
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Post by matt_fulghum »

oh, well if the PID loop has resolutions in the 0.1% increments, then I'm fine. The idle control board that I built that intercepts the Megasquirt's signal shifts everything under 50% duty cycle to a much tighter range. (With the top 50% being very coarse). Every percent is only about 10 rpm difference at that point.
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Post by muythaibxr »

matt_fulghum wrote:oh, well if the PID loop has resolutions in the 0.1% increments, then I'm fine. The idle control board that I built that intercepts the Megasquirt's signal shifts everything under 50% duty cycle to a much tighter range. (With the top 50% being very coarse). Every percent is only about 10 rpm difference at that point.
If that's the case then you should be able to use an I term that's a bit higher.

Try setting the valves off and on duty's to a wider range too as that seems to help people make this code more sensitive.

Ken
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Post by Keithg »

I noted a weirdness. VE map looks really strange. The first time I opened my B16 msq, the VE map was messed up. It looked odd in the tuning console as well as in VE, so I grabbed VEX and reflashed and it seemed fine. Well, I was noting that it was not driving well at elevated rpms (I had just commuted with it, previously). Well I looked at the tuning console again today and saw this.
Is it just me?

KeithG
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Spark dropout observed in Daihatsu mode?

Post by SimonKho79 »

hi james and ken,

Happy new year 2008!

i saw in the bugs list. There is this Daihatsu fix. But in the bracket it says spark dropouts during accel. What does it mean? Does it mean it still cant be used?

Thanks.

Cheers,
Simon
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Post by jsmcortina »

Keith,
That VE table is a mess and I want to be sure we've got to the bottom of what is going on. (It is related to the way the 12x12 and 16x16 tables are defined in memory.)

I tried to replicate your problem but wasn't able to. Steps I took.

Flashed beta16 onto the MS2.
Ran Megatune, saved the MSQ and exported fuel VEtable1. (16x16)

Flashed beta17 onto the MS2.
Ran Megatune, loaded in the old MSQ.
As expected the VEtable1 was confused.
Imported fuel VEtable1. (16x16)

Everything looks ok.
Closed Megatune, re-opened, still looks ok.
Saved a new MSQ.
Closed Megatune, re-opened, loaded in new MSQ. Looks ok.
Closed Megatune, re-opened, still looks ok.

Please try again and if you can repeat the problem, please post the steps.

James
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Post by jsmcortina »

Simon,
To be honest, I'm not sure of the status of Daihatsu 3cyl, the alpha test codes after beta16 had a nasty bug which wasn't helping any ignition mode testing. This is fixed in beta17. If you have opportunity to test again that would be useful to establish the current status. I do hope to spend some time on it again.

James
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MS2/Extra 2.0 beta 17 (20071227)

Post by Keithg »

James,

Happy New Year!

When I first flashed B17, I had odd running and noticed that the VE table was wrong in the tuning console as well as where I import the VE table. So I imported a VEX of a nearly correct fuel table. It showed correctly in the VE table, so I left it. I did not bother to verify that the tuning console was correct until yesterday. I can shut down MT and restart and every time I open the tuning console, I get that odd display though the VE table looks fine in the other view (where I imported the vex file).

I'll try a reflash and see what happens and verify that the VE table looks correct in both places.

KeithG

On Jan 1, 2008 8:12 AM, jsmcortina wrote:
Keith,
That VE table is a mess and I want to be sure we've got to the bottom of what is going on. (It is related to the way the 12x12 and 16x16 tables are defined in memory.)

I tried to replicate your problem but wasn't able to. Steps I took.

Flashed beta16 onto the MS2.
Ran Megatune, saved the MSQ and exported fuel VEtable1. (16x16)

Flashed beta17 onto the MS2.
Ran Megatune, loaded in the old MSQ.
As expected the VEtable1 was confused.
Imported fuel VEtable1. (16x16)

Everything looks ok.
Closed Megatune, re-opened, still looks ok.
Saved a new MSQ.
Closed Megatune, re-opened, loaded in new MSQ. Looks ok.
Closed Megatune, re-opened, still looks ok.

Please try again and if you can repeat the problem, please post the steps.

James
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