MS2/Extra 2.0 beta 17 (20071227)
Moderators: jsmcortina, muythaibxr
-
- Super MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 2413
- Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 9:15 am
- Location: Chicago, IL, USA
- Contact:
James,
I am stumped. If I flash B17 and start from scratch, it seems to be fine, but it does not run well at all. I am sure it is a setting that I am not getting correct on my manual input. If I burn this MSQ, I always get a messed up tuning console VE map, though the map appears to be correct where I import it.
KeithG
I am stumped. If I flash B17 and start from scratch, it seems to be fine, but it does not run well at all. I am sure it is a setting that I am not getting correct on my manual input. If I burn this MSQ, I always get a messed up tuning console VE map, though the map appears to be correct where I import it.
KeithG
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 39621
- Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 1:34 am
- Location: Birmingham, UK
- Contact:
Can you datalog similar conditions in B16 and B17 to compare?Keithg wrote:I am stumped. If I flash B17 and start from scratch, it seems to be fine, but it does not run well at all.
Is the timing ok?
Anyone else seeing similar issues?
James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk
My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
-
- Experienced MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 362
- Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:52 am
- Location: UK
- Contact:
I updated from B15 to B17 mid last week, I have only driven the car a few times since upgrading to B17, and my car does now seem to be abit gutless, but driveable.
When I install a new firmware I always re-enter all data manualy, I have not yet had time to go over all the settings again, but I am 99.5% sure that they are all right.
When I install a new firmware I always re-enter all data manualy, I have not yet had time to go over all the settings again, but I am 99.5% sure that they are all right.
-
- Super MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 2413
- Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 9:15 am
- Location: Chicago, IL, USA
- Contact:
Well, I just did a manual compare of my MSQs and it may be the odd dwell I am running and the fact that the battery correction to dwell time may be messing things up. Can someone else try to load my MSQ and see if they see the same odd tuning console behavior? I do not know if this is a MT issue or not, but it is sure odd. I will take time to digest the difference between the 'scratch' msq and this one that actually starts and idles.jsmcortina wrote:Can you datalog similar conditions in B16 and B17 to compare?Keithg wrote:I am stumped. If I flash B17 and start from scratch, it seems to be fine, but it does not run well at all.
Is the timing ok?
Anyone else seeing similar issues?
James
I'll let you know what I learn.
KeithG
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 39621
- Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 1:34 am
- Location: Birmingham, UK
- Contact:
There really isn't a need to re-enter all settings from scratch. That is the whole point of the XML MSQ format.
beta16->beta17 does require an export/import of fuel VE tables though as the memory locations were changed slightly and the way the 12x12 and 16x16 overlap prevents the old data from reading in correctly.
James
beta16->beta17 does require an export/import of fuel VE tables though as the memory locations were changed slightly and the way the 12x12 and 16x16 overlap prevents the old data from reading in correctly.
James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk
My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
-
- Super MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 2413
- Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 9:15 am
- Location: Chicago, IL, USA
- Contact:
Got it. That is normally what I do, but since it was a big issue, I wanted to blame me instead of the software, especially if everyone else is getting along.jsmcortina wrote:There really isn't a need to re-enter all settings from scratch. That is the whole point of the XML MSQ format.
beta16->beta17 does require an export/import of fuel VE tables though as the memory locations were changed slightly and the way the 12x12 and 16x16 overlap prevents the old data from reading in correctly.
James
I was trying to get my settings correct from scratch here on the warm computer (not in the garage!) I get the same behavior. The VE table looks fine in the VE map import window, but is all messed up in the tuning console. I checked with the Pre-Beta17 S19 Ken sent me as well. Same thing. Odd Tuning console which looks like the jpg I sent earlier. This was after I entered everything by hand in the basic settings column. This is also on 2 different computers, one hooked to the MS and one here in my office.
As for the odd running with my 'scratch' MSQ, I think it was because I missed the spark A (I needed to set it to led14 instead of the default JS10) setting and was running on 2 cylinders! Youch!
I'll go back to the garage and see what happens with this.
(edit) Runs fine, though the tuning console still has the messed up display.
KeithG
Last edited by Keithg on Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Experienced MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 307
- Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:15 am
- Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Did you verify your ignition timing? The new code for predictive timing *could* be responsible if its not working correctly, or if your old timing curves were based on wrong timing from the old code that didn't get it quite right during accel/decel. Of course that assumes that you have it on.Mad Professor wrote:I updated from B15 to B17 mid last week, I have only driven the car a few times since upgrading to B17, and my car does now seem to be abit gutless, but driveable.
When I install a new firmware I always re-enter all data manualy, I have not yet had time to go over all the settings again, but I am 99.5% sure that they are all right.
-
- Experienced MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 362
- Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:52 am
- Location: UK
- Contact:
-
- Super MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 2413
- Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 9:15 am
- Location: Chicago, IL, USA
- Contact:
As far as I can tell, B17 runs fine, but the tuning console is messed up. I have predictive advance turned off and have not looked at that. Wasted spark and such seems fine. All I note is that the tuning console is messed up.
I can duplicate the problem if I
1) copyini for B17
2) open MegaTune
2) import my VE map
4) open tuning console
My current VE map is attached.
Keith
I can duplicate the problem if I
1) copyini for B17
2) open MegaTune
2) import my VE map
4) open tuning console
My current VE map is attached.
Keith
Last edited by Keithg on Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Helpful MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 136
- Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 8:07 am
- Location: The Netherlands
I have reported I had RPM dropouts and I thought I fixed it trough turning off predicton (trigger). But after a couple of days the RPM dropouts came back again. So now I am fixing the wiring (better shielding) and I might replace the VR sensor. Sorry for the error.
Would a tooth-logger implementation, like in MegaTunix, be possible ? That would help a lot of folks, I guess.
Would a tooth-logger implementation, like in MegaTunix, be possible ? That would help a lot of folks, I guess.
Volvo 242GT Turbo
MSII/Extra
Quad VB921 (True COP)
BiFeul trough switching tables (LPG / Petrol)
TechEdge 2E0 WBO2
MSII/Extra
Quad VB921 (True COP)
BiFeul trough switching tables (LPG / Petrol)
TechEdge 2E0 WBO2
Keithg,
that's normal when migrating to beta17. James have already explained that the table structure in beta17 have change from the previous betas to overcome the differences in using 12x12 and 16x16 tables.
I suggest you to export your previous beta VE table and re-import it when using beta17. Me too is having the same scenario. If you take a look at your table (the jumbled beta17), it have that kpa axis not filled up correctly. Just import your saved VE table and you are fine.
that's normal when migrating to beta17. James have already explained that the table structure in beta17 have change from the previous betas to overcome the differences in using 12x12 and 16x16 tables.
I suggest you to export your previous beta VE table and re-import it when using beta17. Me too is having the same scenario. If you take a look at your table (the jumbled beta17), it have that kpa axis not filled up correctly. Just import your saved VE table and you are fine.
-
- Super MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 2413
- Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 9:15 am
- Location: Chicago, IL, USA
- Contact:
D'oh!
It is the top kpa value that is messing everything up. It is less than the one below it and the tuning console is confused. If I change it to be greater than the next one down, it displays fine. Now, if my tuning laptop ever comes back to life, I should be able to fix it.
How it got set like that, I do not know. It was either an errant finger, export problem from MT or something with MLV. It was right in front of me and I just could not see it.
Thanks!
KeithG
It is the top kpa value that is messing everything up. It is less than the one below it and the tuning console is confused. If I change it to be greater than the next one down, it displays fine. Now, if my tuning laptop ever comes back to life, I should be able to fix it.
How it got set like that, I do not know. It was either an errant finger, export problem from MT or something with MLV. It was right in front of me and I just could not see it.
Thanks!
KeithG
Hi Keith,Keithg wrote:D'oh!
It is the top kpa value that is messing everything up. It is less than the one below it and the tuning console is confused. If I change it to be greater than the next one down, it displays fine. Now, if my tuning laptop ever comes back to life, I should be able to fix it.
How it got set like that, I do not know. It was either an errant finger, export problem from MT or something with MLV. It was right in front of me and I just could not see it.
Thanks!
KeithG
It might not even be worth mentioning(?), but I've noticed that same phenomenon before when opening up MSQ's created in RSAutosport Neon Spec MS units into MS1/Extra V.29t. It always sets the top kPa value as some low number, and the tuning console (for fuel and spark) is always all messed up exactly like yours was. . . My guess was that it was just some sort of confusion between a couple of code versions, since I don't think RSAuto was shipping theirs with 29t.
I don't know any more than that!
Thad
-
- Super MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 2413
- Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 9:15 am
- Location: Chicago, IL, USA
- Contact:
Upon further testing with B17... The quick blip has been resolved, thanks. Check to see if I am wrong, but it appears that it no longer adds the 'dashpot' DC to the last known good value when the RPMS drop through the threshold.
I can get it to act reasonably with my valve, but it would be helped considerably with more resolution. I really need to figure out how to get more resolution. If I send my chip to you, could you change the one pin to be a PWM output? I can run it off MS1 in the mean time...
KeithG
I can get it to act reasonably with my valve, but it would be helped considerably with more resolution. I really need to figure out how to get more resolution. If I send my chip to you, could you change the one pin to be a PWM output? I can run it off MS1 in the mean time...
KeithG
Keithg wrote:I thought I noticed that, thanks!muythaibxr wrote:I also think I fixed one of the bugs you reported with the idle valve slow close feature. It shouldn't go below the last-known-good PID value when you do a quick blip now.
KeithG
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 39621
- Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 1:34 am
- Location: Birmingham, UK
- Contact:
Similarly to the MS1/Extra instructions:RacerStev wrote:Were would you connect a EGT amp so that Megatune will see it?
http://www.msextra.com/manuals/MS_Extra ... al.htm#egt
James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk
My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
It's that easy? Thanks!jsmcortina wrote:Similarly to the MS1/Extra instructions:RacerStev wrote:Were would you connect a EGT amp so that Megatune will see it?
http://www.msextra.com/manuals/MS_Extra ... al.htm#egt
James
-
- Super MS/Extra'er
- Posts: 875
- Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:40 pm
- Location: San Diego, CA
- Contact:
Ok, so I got some low impedance injectors. Per the MegaManual, I did this:
Also, shortening the time threshhold from it's (apparent) max of 1.0ms makes things worse.
I'm using (friend supplied) value of 0.6 ms opening time, 0.3 barely runs, 0.4 just seems to work. I ran 0.5 for a while.
Am I just setting this up terribly wrong, did I mess up the building of my board (V3), or is this a b17 bug?
Here's my problem. Things get mildly better as I drop PWM duty cycle to ZERO percent. Maybe 1% works best, hard to say. It is slightly worse at 30% than 1. Noticably.To run low-impedance injectors with the PWM current limit mode, you need to set two parameters - the "PWM Current Limit (%)" and the "PWM Time Threshold (ms)" - both are on the “Constants” page. The current limit % is the percent duty cycle when the current limit is invoked. The time threshold is the amount of time from when the injector is first opened until the current limit is activated.
Start with:
PWM Time Threshold = 1.0 millisecond, and
PWM Current Limit (%) =
30% on a V3 or V3.57 main board (if you have the active flyback circuit installed).
30% on a V2.2 main board (if you have the separate flyback board installed).
75% on a V2.2 main board (if you do not have the separate flyback board installed).
Once you get your engine idling, then first adjust the PWM duty cycle down in 1% increments until you notice a change in idle quality (be sure to hit the "send to ECU" button each time you change the value). This is the point where the current limit is too much and the injectors are not being held fully open.
Then move the value back up 3 - 5% (for example, if the idle falters at 45%, then put in a number of 48% to 50%).
Move on to adjusting the time threshold. Lower the time threshold by 0.1 milliseconds at a time until the idle quality deteriorates.
Then increase it 0.3 ms.
Now, repeat these steps (starting at #2). Adjust the duty cycle and time threshold alternately to get the optimum values for your set-up. You will converge on a set of numbers that work well for your set-up.
Also, shortening the time threshhold from it's (apparent) max of 1.0ms makes things worse.
I'm using (friend supplied) value of 0.6 ms opening time, 0.3 barely runs, 0.4 just seems to work. I ran 0.5 for a while.
Am I just setting this up terribly wrong, did I mess up the building of my board (V3), or is this a b17 bug?
2000 VVT Miata turbo, MS3Pro
Contact me if interested in a MS-II 2nd gen NB Miata PnP board.
Contact me if interested in a MS-II 2nd gen NB Miata PnP board.