Having Problems with my MS II

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Patsmx-5
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Having Problems with my MS II

Post by Patsmx-5 »

Hi guys. I'm new to the forum. I have built a MS II V3.0 I have added input circuits to the prototype area per AbeFM's advice. I have a 99 miata it's going on and with these circuits it should read the stock sensors. I have a MegaStim V2.21.

I'm having problems downloading the firmware to the MS II. I open the MS II downloader, I jumper the daughterboard's pins B/LD. I power cycle the MS twice. I select File, open. I then go to Program files, Megasquirt, MS2_Extra_Firmware. Then I click MS2extra_beta20071020.

When I click MS2extra_beta20071020, I get 3 things to choose from. A file called ms2extra, boostrap, and ms2_extra. I can successfully download Boostrap. If I try to download MS2_extra, it will write to 40%, stop, and gives me an error. I'll copy and past what it says.

Reading C:\Program Files\MegaSquirt\MS2_Extra_Firmware\ms2extra_beta20071020\ms2_extra.s19:
ms2_extra.s19
Detected MS-II (HCS12) code.
Entry point: 0xc000
Code range : 0x4000-0x3dbcf0
File read successfully.

Opened comm port 1 at 115200.
Erasing main FLASH:
Erased.
Writing:
Setting page register 0x3b:
Page set.
Erasing page 0x3b:
Erased.
ERROR: Could not read status code, 0x00 0x00
Elapsed time: 6.34 seconds
Thanks for any help.
Pat
turbotiger
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Post by turbotiger »

You need to use the .bat file included in the beta to flash the cpu. Using the downloader won't work.
Patsmx-5
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Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:01 pm

Post by Patsmx-5 »

I looked, but can't find the .bat file your refering to. I'm not too farmiliar with all this yet. Could you give me a better description of where to go and what to do to find the .bat file and what to do with it? Thanks for the help.
turbo355
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Post by turbo355 »

The file you need is in your MS2 extra code folder you downloaded.

It will say " download-MS2-firmware" it is a MS-DOS Batch file open it and it will guide you through what you need to do.

I also went through the same thing you are going through right now so dont feel alone.LOL
Patsmx-5
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Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:01 pm

Post by Patsmx-5 »

Ok, found the MS DOS Batch thing and ran it, and it was successful. Now what? Megatune still dosn't work. When I click Megatune, and then click car1, I get

Expected: MSIIRev2.88000
Recieved: MS2Extra Rev2.0b14
turbo355
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Post by turbo355 »

Ok now you need to copy the ini file and activate it in the configurator.

Go to the same folder where you got the bat file at and hit the copy ini file.

Then go to MT and go to File and hit configurator.

Hit the drop down menu beside Megatune2.25 and find the magasquirt.ii.ini.ms2extra file then.

Go to File in the corner and hit activate then click ok when the popup appears

now you can run MT and you should have the right ini so MT will work right.
Patsmx-5
MS/Extra Newbie
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:01 pm

Post by Patsmx-5 »

I found the bat file by going to start, all programs, megasquirt, downlaod firmware. I can't find a copy ini file your talking about. I tried going to my computer, and I got to here:

C:\Program Files\MegaSquirt\Firmware\MS-II

There are 3 .S19 files, a folder called C32, and microsoft office outlook configurator.
turbo355
Master MS/Extra'er
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Post by turbo355 »

Well then you need to find your folder where you put the beta download or redownload it off the web and copy the ini thats the only way MT will know witch version of firmware your using.
Patsmx-5
MS/Extra Newbie
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:01 pm

Post by Patsmx-5 »

I found where all my files are. They are here:


C:\Program Files\MegaSquirt\MS2_Extra_Firmware\ms2extra_beta20071020

ok, I started over, and used the download msII firmware dos tool. It was successful. THen I click the copy.ini file, and a dos window pops up and says ( I will have to type all this, it won't let me copy&paste) :(

C:/WINDOWS/system32/cmd.exe

Copying msns-extra.ini file... check for errors below

C:Program Files/Megasquirt/MS2_Extra_Firmware/ms2extra_beta20071020>copy Megasquirt-ii.ini.ms2extra "c:program files/megasquirt/megatune2.25/mtcfg"
The system can not find the file specified.


C:Program Files/Megasquirt/MS2_Extra_Firmware/ms2extra_beta20071020>copy Megasquirt-ii.ini.ms2extra "c:program files/megasquirt/megatune2.25/mtcfg/megasquirt-II.ini"
The system cannot find the file specified
.
Press any key to continue . . .

Ok, so that's a problem right?
Then go to MT and go to File and hit configurator.

Hit the drop down menu beside Megatune2.25 and find the magasquirt.ii.ini.ms2extra file then.

Go to File in the corner and hit activate then click ok when the popup appears
I found that, and did it. Megatune still dosn't open though.
md95
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Post by md95 »

It sounds like you have Megatune installed incorrectly. It should be installed here: c:program files/megasquirt/megatune2.25/. The batch file to copy the ini file, needs megatune installed in that directory for it to work. The error is saying it cant find that directory. This is why it's always best to install MT in the default directory, not any other ones. The MT installer should create this directory for you, unless you specified a different one.
-Matt-
1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS 420A Turbo- MS2 Extra- 2.1.0 Release
1992 Plymouth Laser RS 4g63 AWD Turbo MS2 Extra- 3.0.3s
Patsmx-5
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Post by Patsmx-5 »

Megatune is here: C:\Program Files\MegaSquirt\MegaTune2.25

I'm thinking I should try uninstalling everything about MS, and reinstall everything I need. I have at least two diff versions of Megatune right now. I have MegaTune 2.25, and MegaTune2.25P1.

I also have download a few diff firmwares. AbeFM agrees that I need the latest version of MS II extra Beta. I think I have that, as well as a couple other firmwares right now.
md95
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Post by md95 »

Yeah two different copies of MT may be causing confusion. Uninstall both MT's, then reinstall. Then download the latest firmware which is beta 18 from this link:

http://www.msextra.com/ms2extra/files/b ... 080105.zip

All the files you need are in this download- the firmware(s19, the ini, and the downloader). Extract the zip file into a folder, preferably one you can create so you know what it is. I like to make folder names for all the files, such as "MS2 Extra beta 18". This way i know for a fact what firmware it is, and all the files i need are right in it.
-Matt-
1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS 420A Turbo- MS2 Extra- 2.1.0 Release
1992 Plymouth Laser RS 4g63 AWD Turbo MS2 Extra- 3.0.3s
Patsmx-5
MS/Extra Newbie
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:01 pm

Post by Patsmx-5 »

Ok, it's running MT without any errors. copy.ini ran with no errors, and I downloaded the firmware to the MS with no errors.

I have a MegaStim V2.21 and the O2 and RPM knobs don't work on Megatune. The coolant, Air Intake Temp, and Throttle Position Sensor knobs do work.

Any thoughts as to why I'm not getting a RPM or O2 reading? I did click basic setup, tach input/ignition settings, and set spark mode to basic trigger.

Thanks.
turbo355
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Post by turbo355 »

Try setting the tach input to EDIS. I dont know on the o2 how is your stim setup for narrow band or wideband?
Patsmx-5
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Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:01 pm

Post by Patsmx-5 »

I tried setting the tach input to EDIS, and about 10 others including miata99-00. (it's going on a miata). I just tried installing it on the car, and with the laptop running megatune. When I spin the motor over, I get no RPM signal, and Megatune isn't synched.
turbo355
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Post by turbo355 »

Patsmx-5 wrote:I tried setting the tach input to EDIS, and about 10 others including miata99-00. (it's going on a miata). I just tried installing it on the car, and with the laptop running megatune. When I spin the motor over, I get no RPM signal, and Megatune isn't synched.
How do you have the tach inputs wired up on your board im not real sure on the V3.0 board if this would cause this problem or not.

Did you get a rpm signal before you went to the extra firmware it will be easier to diagnose if we know exactly when it happened if you never had a signal then i would say something is installed wrong on the board or your jumpers are set wrong on the board again on the jumpers im guessing here someone who has build the V3.0 would be more helpful on this than me i build mostly 2.2 .
Patsmx-5
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Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:01 pm

Post by Patsmx-5 »

turbo355 wrote:
Patsmx-5 wrote:I tried setting the tach input to EDIS, and about 10 others including miata99-00. (it's going on a miata). I just tried installing it on the car, and with the laptop running megatune. When I spin the motor over, I get no RPM signal, and Megatune isn't synched.
How do you have the tach inputs wired up on your board im not real sure on the V3.0 board if this would cause this problem or not.

Did you get a rpm signal before you went to the extra firmware it will be easier to diagnose if we know exactly when it happened if you never had a signal then i would say something is installed wrong on the board or your jumpers are set wrong on the board again on the jumpers im guessing here someone who has build the V3.0 would be more helpful on this than me i build mostly 2.2 .
I have never got a RPM signal from MS before. However, if I run a wire to ground, and tap it to Tsel, the RPM guage in MT will respond, and so does the fuel injector guage.

I have a Cam sensor and a crank sensor for triggering the ignition.

The crank sensor is coming in pin 24, which coresponds with tachselect.
The Cam sensor is coming in pin 25, which coresponds with IAC1A.

From those pins, I have wires going to my circuits I built in the prototype area. I will attach a pic of the schematics I'm using. They are from AbeFM, and he's running a very similar version of this on his 2000 miata. (mine is a 99).

The crank signal goes in my crank circuit, and out and to pin Tsel.
The cam signal goes in my cam circuit, and goes out to pin JS10.

Edit. From testing, I have found that the cam circuit, when ground is applied to the input, it outputs a 5V signal.
AbeFM
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Post by AbeFM »

There aren't any jumpers invovled really, except those in and out of the circuit. He's got (effectively) the same circuit I do. I'm a little worried the 470 ohm resistors are too small for the miata sensors to sync, but 10 mA is not asking a lot.

If anyone has any ideas on what more to test, it would be good. The only suggestion I've been able to provide other than verifying the tach signal gets passed (low is low and high is high) and the cam signal is inverted (high is low and low is high) is if the sensors are genuinely flipped. I don't see why they wouldn't be.

There is one other issue, in the 99-00 miata alpha thread: My sensors were VERY sensitive, esp on starting, to their position. I moved my crank sensor closer to the wheel, and in the end the cam sensor a bit further, and got nice signals. Before that, little to no sync (though since he's getting none I'm worried).

I would recommend moving the crank sesnor in to about 0.025".

Lastly, as a check, run the car off the stock ecu, and see if the MS picks up the signals when the motor is turning at speed (2,500 rpm or above)

<edit> The other miata user also sees bad signals under starting. I don't know if he tried moving his sensors or not
2000 VVT Miata turbo, MS3Pro

Contact me if interested in a MS-II 2nd gen NB Miata PnP board.
md95
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Post by md95 »

Have you guys actually verified that the cam signal IS inverted from the crank signal? Have you used a test instrument to do this? (multimeter, ect)? This is very important to know. Also, not sure if you are referring to the 470 ohm resistor in the above diagram, but 4k7 means 4,700 ohms not 470 ohms. I think the 1k ohm resistors after the .1uf caps are unnecessary, on both input circuits.

I really dont see why you cant use the on-board opto isolator circuit for your main crank input signal. You can mod it like the "neon" input, BUT you would jumper XG1 to XG2 to ground, then bring in your crank signal to the right side of D2,(or just jumper D1 and D2, and bring in the signal to opto in) use a 470 ohm 5v pullup instead of that 150 ohm, and remove and jumper R12. This will invert the crank signal through the opto out to the chip input pin. The caps on the input to the opto and on the output of the opto, will help filter noise.

Image


For the cam input, you can use the schematic on the RIGHT:

Image

This keeps both inputs the same polarity on the input pins to the chip, and also keeps you from having to use a 2n2222 transistor. The cap in this diagram is placed AFTER the resistor, which acts as a low pass filter. It's fixed my noise issue on my 4/2 CAS 2nd trigger input.. If you try these circuits, you *may* have to change your input capture setting(rising/falling edges). Just a suggestion.
-Matt-
1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS 420A Turbo- MS2 Extra- 2.1.0 Release
1992 Plymouth Laser RS 4g63 AWD Turbo MS2 Extra- 3.0.3s
AbeFM
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Post by AbeFM »

Mostly good stuff, I am gaining a fresh interest as I am fighting a serious, ocassional lurch now.

I've verified the polarity of the signals with an oscope.
Image

The signals are both getting flipped here, this is with my old circuit. It's also really noisy, again, an old issue.

I've been trying to get verification from another source but as of yet have found none.

I'm very sure on my advice of checking sensor gap, as well.
Image
When I moved the sensor closer, this "sticking" went away. I've seen this same effect in several different, unrelated, cars. Some MS, some AEM, just around the web. I don't think there's some magic way an opto-isolator will take bad data and turn it good. Not trying to sound smug here, but I don't think it's (yet) the issue.

I'm quite curious about this opto-isolator input, and have some questions:
Looking at the input side of the circuit, I see this:
Image

Which tells me that they are all the same. Except that one is opto isolated (except all my noise tends to head towards ground, so I don't think that's the issue) and that the circuit has 1/100th the capacitance of what I've already got.

If I'm over simplifying the optoisolator, let me know. As I understand it, from the outside world, it's a black box that acts like an NPN with the input being as the base.

Now, the filter on the output I *do* like, only I don't really expect the transistor to output noise if it doesn't get it in. And from some of my traces, I already have evidence of that, noisy input and clean output.

I *really* do appreciate the suggestion, so forgive me if I'm giving it a brutal analysis - I'm hoping when next I touch iron to board it's with a firm idea of what I want to do. Please keep them coming!

For referance, my car has been running this:
Image
for a week. There's it seems like it's missing a tooth now and then on the crank - but it's a noise issue I think, not what Pat's experiencing. I had exactly what he is having and that was sensor placement. It would be a lot easier to troubleshoot with a scope (for instance to know if his sensors are inverted relative to each other as mine are).

My only *other* suggestion is to build another non-inverting ("crank"-type) input, use it for the cam, and see if it magically runs. My guess is no. :-)
2000 VVT Miata turbo, MS3Pro

Contact me if interested in a MS-II 2nd gen NB Miata PnP board.
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