MS2/Extra 2.0 beta 19 (20080120)
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MS2/Extra 2.0 beta 19 (20080120)
Changes this release:
- Fixed spark cut revlimiting for rotary trailing. Just turn off trailing completely in this situation
- Fixed nitrous and launch inputs on JS10 (hopefully)
- Added Rover 36-1-1 wheel mode
- Added Rover 36-1-1-1-1 wheel modes 2 and 3
- Brought CAN code in line with MS2 2.883i; moved flash7 to flash10
- outpc is block7 same as MS2 and fixed some bugs
- Added tables 14, 15 as 'title' and 'signature'
- Allow VTR1000 mode to select 4cyl as a test to fix rpm doubling
The beta can be found here:
http://www.msextra.com/ms2extra/files/b ... 080120.zip
As always, post to this thread with any problems.
For the person complaining of problems with 60-2 wheel mode... I did more testing today and still cannot find any problems. I even compared 1.0.2 to 2.0 beta 19 and saw no significant difference (maybe a couple of microseconds difference). Fueling has changed significantly for 2.0, opening time and some other things, so you may just need to retune fuel).
Ken
- Fixed spark cut revlimiting for rotary trailing. Just turn off trailing completely in this situation
- Fixed nitrous and launch inputs on JS10 (hopefully)
- Added Rover 36-1-1 wheel mode
- Added Rover 36-1-1-1-1 wheel modes 2 and 3
- Brought CAN code in line with MS2 2.883i; moved flash7 to flash10
- outpc is block7 same as MS2 and fixed some bugs
- Added tables 14, 15 as 'title' and 'signature'
- Allow VTR1000 mode to select 4cyl as a test to fix rpm doubling
The beta can be found here:
http://www.msextra.com/ms2extra/files/b ... 080120.zip
As always, post to this thread with any problems.
For the person complaining of problems with 60-2 wheel mode... I did more testing today and still cannot find any problems. I even compared 1.0.2 to 2.0 beta 19 and saw no significant difference (maybe a couple of microseconds difference). Fueling has changed significantly for 2.0, opening time and some other things, so you may just need to retune fuel).
Ken
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I'd heard the JimStim had been updated to reflect the pulses in a 99+ miata where the cams are between the crank pulses, not coninciding with them. Is this relfected in the code, or not even an issue anymore?
2000 VVT Miata turbo, MS3Pro
Contact me if interested in a MS-II 2nd gen NB Miata PnP board.
Contact me if interested in a MS-II 2nd gen NB Miata PnP board.
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The Miata 99-00 code was not changed in beta19.
James
James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk
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My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
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Also fixed was the idle deal (at least for me) where it would not add a DC amount for a dashpot. This is resolved and works beautifully, now.
I have not seen the slow firmware download.
Bosch idle valve and 200ms loop time.
P=8
I=7.7
D=3
P reduced to compensate for overshoot
D increased to combat overshoot
I increased to get it to correct for SS idle error. It still can take too long to correct. This is due to the very low DC count and the low PID values.
MS2/E has the smoothest idle I have ever experienced on my car. this is with 1 squirt simultaneous in my 2.0L turbo with ~37lb injectors.
KeithG
I have not seen the slow firmware download.
Bosch idle valve and 200ms loop time.
P=8
I=7.7
D=3
P reduced to compensate for overshoot
D increased to combat overshoot
I increased to get it to correct for SS idle error. It still can take too long to correct. This is due to the very low DC count and the low PID values.
MS2/E has the smoothest idle I have ever experienced on my car. this is with 1 squirt simultaneous in my 2.0L turbo with ~37lb injectors.
KeithG
Been a while since I have used it, but have you tried adjusting the starting and taper values?PhoB wrote:I have problem with beta 18 and 19. When i start engine, RPM goes over 3000+ (2500 when cold) for few sec and than drop to setuped 1100(or according to duty cycle).
I have PWM 3wire BOSCH and WARM-UP mode.
Its better to use closed loop? Its work correctly? I dont test yet.
86 Rx-7, swapped to 2.3 ford turbo (BW EFR 6758), ms3/ms3x sequential fuel /waste spark, ls2 coils
88 Tbird 2.3t, Microsquirt Module (PIMP), TFI ignition
88 Tbird 2.3t, Microsquirt Module (PIMP), TFI ignition
I dont have any start value in MT setting. Do you mean cranking duty? This is default on 65% .... i try to lower it. Craning taper is default(5sec).wes kiser wrote:Been a while since I have used it, but have you tried adjusting the starting and taper values?PhoB wrote:I have problem with beta 18 and 19. When i start engine, RPM goes over 3000+ (2500 when cold) for few sec and than drop to setuped 1100(or according to duty cycle).
I have PWM 3wire BOSCH and WARM-UP mode.
Its better to use closed loop? Its work correctly? I dont test yet.
passionboost
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MS2/Extra 2.0 beta 19 (20080120)
The sensitivity is dependent on the coarseness of the output/control relationship.
if RPMs/DC% is a large number, it will be very sensitive. If this number drops, it becomes less sensitive. With a Bosch 2 wire AIC, it will be very sensitive. To improve this will require more precision in DC%. Currently, it is either 1% or 2%. In my installation, 1% is too corase. Personally, I would like to see .5% or 0.25% step size. The logic and algorithm are fine, it is just that the limitation of a time based bit bang controller limits us to 1% or 2% as the code currently is. If the code were to be written to yield a 0.5% step, we then have a carrier freq ~50hz which is too noisy for most installs. As far as I can tell, the derivative value has *no* effect on my install most probably due to this rpm to DC relationship. So, the possibility of adding P and balancing with more D just doe snot work.
To get this level of precision or greater will require the use of a true PWM output. I have already given thought to how we may 'free' the injector MS2 chip PWM output from the nand gate on the MS2 card. This is possible, but delicate. The other required bit of work would be the code which does not exist. I have given some thought to this, but do not have the time, currently, to devote to the study of MS2 code to be able to attempt a trial at this.
If this can be resolved, MS2/E would then be a better solution than MS1/E for my install. As it is, I struggle with this daily. Either I am on the edge of oscillation and it will oscillate at times at startup, or it reacts so slowly, that I can stall it at a stoplight.
KeithG
On Jan 26, 2008 10:09 AM, JonE30 <jone30@cox.net (jone30@cox.net)> wrote:
if RPMs/DC% is a large number, it will be very sensitive. If this number drops, it becomes less sensitive. With a Bosch 2 wire AIC, it will be very sensitive. To improve this will require more precision in DC%. Currently, it is either 1% or 2%. In my installation, 1% is too corase. Personally, I would like to see .5% or 0.25% step size. The logic and algorithm are fine, it is just that the limitation of a time based bit bang controller limits us to 1% or 2% as the code currently is. If the code were to be written to yield a 0.5% step, we then have a carrier freq ~50hz which is too noisy for most installs. As far as I can tell, the derivative value has *no* effect on my install most probably due to this rpm to DC relationship. So, the possibility of adding P and balancing with more D just doe snot work.
To get this level of precision or greater will require the use of a true PWM output. I have already given thought to how we may 'free' the injector MS2 chip PWM output from the nand gate on the MS2 card. This is possible, but delicate. The other required bit of work would be the code which does not exist. I have given some thought to this, but do not have the time, currently, to devote to the study of MS2 code to be able to attempt a trial at this.
If this can be resolved, MS2/E would then be a better solution than MS1/E for my install. As it is, I struggle with this daily. Either I am on the edge of oscillation and it will oscillate at times at startup, or it reacts so slowly, that I can stall it at a stoplight.
KeithG
On Jan 26, 2008 10:09 AM, JonE30 <jone30@cox.net (jone30@cox.net)> wrote:
Is it just me, or does it seem that tuning out the PID variables for PWM closed loop is VERY sensitive to what numbers you input?
Also, has anyone tried applying the Zeigler-Nichols Method for determining the optimum PID variables?
Jon
1990 BMW 330is
M50B29 done - wiring incomplete
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We're close to making a release candidate. Just a few more bugs to fix!
On the PID idle, as Keith says, with the resolution of 1% duty, some installs will be tough to get right.
I'm usually happy if I'm + or - 50 rpms, with the corolla I could get that close.
I've not yet tried on the rx7, I just got it running on ms2/extra today though, so once I get everything dialed in, I'll give it a shot.
Ken
On the PID idle, as Keith says, with the resolution of 1% duty, some installs will be tough to get right.
I'm usually happy if I'm + or - 50 rpms, with the corolla I could get that close.
I've not yet tried on the rx7, I just got it running on ms2/extra today though, so once I get everything dialed in, I'll give it a shot.
Ken
Sorry for asking. Are in betas some dizzy mode and trigger return improvements? There was late firing and rpm drop outs at higher rpms.
Due this somewhere in September I was forced migrate back to MS1-Extra. Time based is not for my engine at cold.
Gints
Due this somewhere in September I was forced migrate back to MS1-Extra. Time based is not for my engine at cold.
Gints
Some of my instalations:
VW TBI, VW 16V 60-2,
BMW M50 COPs 60-2, BMW M20 and M50 ITBs as Alpha-N, BMW M20 turbo Wasted spark
Opel 20XE Wasted Alpha-N with ITBs
Audi 10VT Audi20V
MR2 3S-GE.............
and over 100 tuned
VW TBI, VW 16V 60-2,
BMW M50 COPs 60-2, BMW M20 and M50 ITBs as Alpha-N, BMW M20 turbo Wasted spark
Opel 20XE Wasted Alpha-N with ITBs
Audi 10VT Audi20V
MR2 3S-GE.............
and over 100 tuned