Wrong AFR readings in MT

disc · Post by **disc** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:51 am

V2.2
MS2/Extra 2.0 beta 20 (20080127)
LC-1 (first edition, in the yellow/beige box, not the blue box! with 470 ohm, 1/4watt resistor in between the analog output of the LC-1)

I got my car up and running with MS2Extra beta 20 last night. But there is wrong readings for AFR. I've done calibration on LC-1, also calibrated AFR Table in MT (not on running engine!), in MT configurator I got LC-1 0-5V settings selected. I got Innovate G2 gauge in my car, that tell me the difference.
I got MS1 Extra (024s9) in another V2.2 board using same wiring, setup etc. that read AFR from same LC-1 correct (reading on G2 and MT are identical).

Is there anything special that I have to do with wideband setting to get correct readings in MT ?

Thanks!

P.S. Guys you are great! Keep the good work on MS!

Post by **muythaibxr** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:59 am

Calibrate AFR table should be enough. Doing anything else might cause wrong readings.

Ken

hassmaschine · Post by **hassmaschine** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:09 am

I think you are choosing innnovate 0-5v in the menu - unfortunately, that doesn't work correctly. you need to choose "generic linear wideband" and enter in the voltage/AFR values manually. then it should be dead on (at least it was when I compared the two outputs directly).

pigga · Post by **pigga** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:13 pm

Hi.
I noticed this bug as well. The default settings for LC1 0-5V in MT 2.25 seem to be off. I found out by using the "JAW" WB-Controller that has a directly-driven Display. Though I put full load AFR to Lambda 0,87 in the Table MS/MLV actually adjusted full load AFR to Lambda 0,77 (

) which is pretty rich. As Hassmachine said you´ll need to generate an AFR Table manually. E.g. settings Point1

1V/AFR 10,3....Point2

5V/AFR22,1 should work I think.
Thomas

Keithg · Post by **Keithg** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:04 pm

hassmaschine wrote:I think you are choosing innnovate 0-5v in the menu - unfortunately, that doesn't work correctly. you need to choose "generic linear wideband" and enter in the voltage/AFR values manually. then it should be dead on (at least it was when I compared the two outputs directly).

d***, really! This is a major oversight.

Ken/James, What is going on here? Is it MT? If so, do we know what, exactly, is wrong?

KeithG

turbo355 · Post by **turbo355** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:21 pm

You can go to DIY Auto tunes website they have a great manual for just this thing you have to change the AFR scale in the LC-1 itself . Go here and read more.

http://www.diyautotune.com/faq/faq.htm#innovate_config

Post by **muythaibxr** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:13 pm

If there is a problem, it's in MT, as MT generates the curves.

I don't think there's a problem though, as the LM-1 and LC-1's default curves are different. MT is set for the LM-1's default curve.

Ken

disc · Post by **disc** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:02 am

Hi,

Eric says that is code related:

http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=30412

Keithg · Post by **Keithg** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:03 am

I wonder if this is a calibration problem. The LC-1 is not factory set to 0-5. It has some odd calibration. You need to set it to 0-5 =10-20 AFR using the Innovate software. Once it is set in the LC-1, it will retain that setting. If you have done this and it still has incorrect readings in MT, then it may be a MT problem.

KeithG

automat · Post by **automat** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:13 am

MT says innovate LC-1 default which is 7-22AFR, not 10-20 like the LM-1. so if i select this calibration option will it set the curve for a LC-1 or an LM-1?

using the linear generic WB seems to be a good option...

6040solder · Post by **6040solder** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:13 am

The LC-1's analog output 2 is factory programmed to provide a
linear output between 0V and 5V for an AFR of 7.35 to 22.39.

Not really weird just to the extremes of the range that you might want to read.

Sounds like MT is right.

Keithg · Post by **Keithg** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:56 am

The setting in MT is (LC-1 0-5V). This assumes that you have set your output to be a 0-5V : 10-20 AFR on the LC-1. If you have not done this and wish to use the total range of the LC-1, you will need to put the terms in and calibrate it as a generic sensor. At least this is my understanding. Please correct me if I am wrong.

KeithG

6040solder · Post by **6040solder** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:47 am

OK, I have the answer :

:~/.wine.new/drive_c/Program Files/MegaSquirt$ grep -rn FJO .
Binary file ./MegaTune2.25/megatune.exe matches

i.e. the list of available options in MT is hard coded and no longer includes "LC1-DEFAULT" which all the ms1e etc ini's used to handle.

grepping for Innovate displays heaps of hits

./MegaTune2.25/mtCfg/lambdaSensors.ini:55:#elif INNOVATE_1_2_LINEAR
./MegaTune2.25/mtCfg/lambdaSensors.ini:61:#elif INNOVATE_0_5_LINEAR
./MegaTune2.25/mtCfg/lambdaSensors.ini:67:#elif INNOVATE_LC1_DEFAULT

but the option FJO in the menu is ONLY present inside the exe!!

so there is an issue. I wonder what my AFRs were at :-/ scary stuff. tuning AFR under boost with a gauge thats reading way off :-(

So, yes Keith, you are right, you must use generic wideband for the LC-1 or reprogram it to the narrower range. Thats pretty bad form really. Either both Innovates should be included with their appropriate ranges AND names, or neither of them. If you were going to have only one, it would have to be LC-1 not LM-1 as hardly any of us buy those.

Who wants to contact Eric about this?

hassmaschine · Post by **hassmaschine** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:28 am

it's really not a big deal to work around - although I kinda wish it was more well known. if you follow my instructions it will read correctly, but I do wonder how many people are running around with the default chosen and bad AFR readings..

I don't think the 0-5v setting works either - mine was still off by quite a bit even with the LC-1 programmed for that range. when I changed it to generic WB and manually entered 0-5v it was dead on.

ronchinoy · Post by **ronchinoy** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:13 am

any update or fix to this issue ?

Keithg · Post by **Keithg** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:27 am

ronchinoy wrote:any update or fix to this issue ?

The workaround is pretty simple, though, you are right, this should be fixed and is a significant issue.

KeithG

hassmaschine · Post by **hassmaschine** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:20 am

if no updates to MT are coming any time soon, it should at least be documented in the manual so people are aware of the problem. I was "tuning" my car for 2 months using the default setting without realizing it wasn't nearly accurate, and I happened across a thread that mentioned the issue.

AbeFM · Post by **AbeFM** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:26 am

I had this feeling when my guages didn't agree, I took my other AFR guage, and I fiddled with the outputs in Innovative's software until I was *sure* it was right.

1) Set the "warm up" voltage on the innovative to 2.5v
2) Look at guage during warm up.
3) Repeat with other meaningful voltages

This tells you really quick what's going on, and you can be sure that if the LC-1 thinks it's 12.0 that your gauge shows 12.0. Since you can't do this without the engine running under megatune, this is pretty much impossible as it requires many, many restarts. If there were some way to read the AFR without the motor running, it would be a lot easier (the warmed the LC-1, the less time it spends in 'warm up')

Anyway, glad to hear this work around, I'll try it.

6040solder · Post by **6040solder** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:28 am

hassmaschine wrote:if no updates to MT are coming any time soon, it should at least be documented in the manual so people are aware of the problem. I was "tuning" my car for 2 months using the default setting without realizing it wasn't nearly accurate, and I happened across a thread that mentioned the issue.

i wonder if editting the binary to have a better name is a possibility

if it at least said LM-1 then it would be ok.

let me have a go at it. (a true dirty hack at best, but surely not worse than the effect of what is going on now.)

on the brighter side, it only makes your real reading more extreme. IE you are richer in boost, and leaner at cruise. cruise you choose the leanest you can anyway, and you'll chicken out before leaning boost out past 13 or so and therefore have more safety than you thought...

6040solder · Post by **6040solder** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:31 am

AbeFM wrote:if the LC-1 thinks it's 12.0 that your gauge shows 12.0

that only works if you have access to the windows innovate tool. it does not work under wine in linux, and thus, i can not use it (don't have windows at all)