36-4 questions (was Getting a new trigger wheel added)
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36-4 questions (was Getting a new trigger wheel added)
Hi, does this crank trigger wheel is supported :
Here is the cam trigger arm :
Info on the engine :
Toyota 3SGTE, gen 4, 2.0L, 4 cyl., 4 COP (4 wires so I assume they are with built-in ignitior style)
The crank trigger wheel look like a 32 teeth with a large solid tooth. Each tooth is 10°, so, if I cut in the large solid tooth, I can get a 36 teeth wheel.
The cam trigger arm is simply a steel arm bolted on the intake camshaft. Both cam and crank sensor are VR sensors.
For now, this engine is running with a Ford EDIS4 module + coil + 36-1 crank trigger wheel and VR sensor. But, I feel more experienced with MS and I would like to go sequential COP with all the OEM crank/cam/COP system.
I will be able to get some timing info about the crank trigger wheel and cam trigger arm (position vs engine TDC) in a week or two.
Let me know!
Sam
Here is the cam trigger arm :
Info on the engine :
Toyota 3SGTE, gen 4, 2.0L, 4 cyl., 4 COP (4 wires so I assume they are with built-in ignitior style)
The crank trigger wheel look like a 32 teeth with a large solid tooth. Each tooth is 10°, so, if I cut in the large solid tooth, I can get a 36 teeth wheel.
The cam trigger arm is simply a steel arm bolted on the intake camshaft. Both cam and crank sensor are VR sensors.
For now, this engine is running with a Ford EDIS4 module + coil + 36-1 crank trigger wheel and VR sensor. But, I feel more experienced with MS and I would like to go sequential COP with all the OEM crank/cam/COP system.
I will be able to get some timing info about the crank trigger wheel and cam trigger arm (position vs engine TDC) in a week or two.
Let me know!
Sam
Re: Getting a new trigger wheel added to the code
That wheel would be a 32-2 wheel with a single tooth second trigger this should work.
2000 Suzuki Hayabusa turbo MS3 beta testing Plug and Play standalone
http://interfacepnp.webs.com/
http://www.youtube.com/Busams
http://interfacepnp.webs.com/
http://www.youtube.com/Busams
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Re: Getting a new trigger wheel added to the code
OK, thanks for the answer. For now, I'll do my homework and I'll read all the MS2Extra manual about 4 wires COP, 2nd trigger input and tacho output.
Thanks for the fast answer!
Sam
Thanks for the fast answer!
Sam
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Re: Getting a new trigger wheel added to the code
Or is it a 36-4 ?turbo355 wrote:That wheel would be a 32-2 wheel with a single tooth second trigger this should work.
Presently 32 teeth (e.g. 32 non missing or 32-2 etc.) aren't supported as they don't divide nicely into 360, giving 11.25 deg. The code is only to one decimal place.
I had planned to work around this by setting alternate teeth to 11.2 and 11.3 to handle the 32 tooth situation as I believe that some Harleys use a wheel like this. I haven't done this yet.
James
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Re: Getting a new trigger wheel added to the code
jsmcortina wrote:Or is it a 36-4 ?turbo355 wrote:That wheel would be a 32-2 wheel with a single tooth second trigger this should work.
Presently 32 teeth (e.g. 32 non missing or 32-2 etc.) aren't supported as they don't divide nicely into 360, giving 11.25 deg. The code is only to one decimal place.
I had planned to work around this by setting alternate teeth to 11.2 and 11.3 to handle the 32 tooth situation as I believe that some Harleys use a wheel like this. I haven't done this yet.
James
I think your right James, i looked more closely and it does indeed look like 4 teeth are missing .
I assumed 32-2 would work , i didnt think about it not dividing correctly into 360.
2000 Suzuki Hayabusa turbo MS3 beta testing Plug and Play standalone
http://interfacepnp.webs.com/
http://www.youtube.com/Busams
http://interfacepnp.webs.com/
http://www.youtube.com/Busams
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Re: Getting a new trigger wheel added to the code
It must be a 36-X trigger wheel because there is 10° between each tooth (it is verified). So a 36-4 trigger seems good. I was just unsure about the fact that the 4 missing teeth are in fact one large solid tooth. I will try it as a 36-4 wheel and I'll report back (I will try this new setup this summer).
Thanks
Sam
Thanks
Sam
Re: Getting a new trigger wheel added to the code
James would know for sure but i dont think you will have any problems with that wheel.
2000 Suzuki Hayabusa turbo MS3 beta testing Plug and Play standalone
http://interfacepnp.webs.com/
http://www.youtube.com/Busams
http://interfacepnp.webs.com/
http://www.youtube.com/Busams
Re: 36-4 questions (was Getting a new trigger wheel added)
i have set my 3sgte gen4 to a 36-4, but i still cant get a spark
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Re: 36-4 questions (was Getting a new trigger wheel added)
If it's anything like some of the other toyota crank setups I've seen then it's 36-2...
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Re: 36-4 questions (was Getting a new trigger wheel added)
thats correct. i have the exact same setup on my toyota 5efe and it runs as a 36-2 wheelmuythaibxr wrote:If it's anything like some of the other toyota crank setups I've seen then it's 36-2...
also check this link :
http://msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=104&t=35169
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Re: 36-4 questions (was Getting a new trigger wheel added)
I agree with the 36-2 trigger wheel setting.
Here's a shot of the crank gear vs the crank angle sensor when the cylinder #1 is at TDC :
http://www.sw20.jp/20/Tech_Articles/BLA ... P/cps2.jpg
Notes :
-the crank rotation is clockwise.
-the arrow on the oil pump housing is indicating the tooth right before the large tooth (which can be considered as a 2 teeth missing gap).
I've calculated the "tooth #1 angle" on my home PC. I'll get that info later today.
BTW, batgirl, would you post or PM your .msq file for me plz. I will do the same for you (mine is not tested yet, was running on EDIS instead of stock COPs).
Thanks
Sam
Here's a shot of the crank gear vs the crank angle sensor when the cylinder #1 is at TDC :
http://www.sw20.jp/20/Tech_Articles/BLA ... P/cps2.jpg
Notes :
-the crank rotation is clockwise.
-the arrow on the oil pump housing is indicating the tooth right before the large tooth (which can be considered as a 2 teeth missing gap).
I've calculated the "tooth #1 angle" on my home PC. I'll get that info later today.
BTW, batgirl, would you post or PM your .msq file for me plz. I will do the same for you (mine is not tested yet, was running on EDIS instead of stock COPs).
Thanks
Sam
Re: 36-4 questions (was Getting a new trigger wheel added)
mine is still not running, i need to set it up to 36-2, but still not sure what angle for BTDC
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Re: 36-4 questions (was Getting a new trigger wheel added)
Hi, I've done a drawing using Solidworks and here's the result :
The block at the bottom is the crank angle sensor.
So, assuming the rotation is clockwise and that this is at TDC on cyl #1, the tooth #1 angle should be set at : 215° (you could try 210° and 220° too).
Please, correct my logic if I'm wrong.
Sam
The block at the bottom is the crank angle sensor.
So, assuming the rotation is clockwise and that this is at TDC on cyl #1, the tooth #1 angle should be set at : 215° (you could try 210° and 220° too).
Please, correct my logic if I'm wrong.
Sam
Re: 36-4 questions (was Getting a new trigger wheel added)
215 deg
does this mean the trigger angle should be 360-215= 145 ?
does this mean the trigger angle should be 360-215= 145 ?
Re: 36-4 questions (was Getting a new trigger wheel added)
http://www.extraefi.co.uk/wheel_fitting.htm
going by this website i think it should be 10x11....110 deg btdc
going by this website i think it should be 10x11....110 deg btdc
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Re: 36-4 questions (was Getting a new trigger wheel added)
Thanks for the link.
How did you end up with 110°?
Remember, the rotation is clockwise. The tooth #1 is the first tooth after the first missing tooth (in our case, the tooth #1 is the 2nd missing tooth).
So, after looking at the link you posted, the tooth count should look like this :
And the tooth #1 angle should be 225°BTDC. Again, this pic is when the engine is set at TDC on cyl #1 and the rotation is clockwise.
I would like if someone could verify what I'm saying here.
Sam
How did you end up with 110°?
Remember, the rotation is clockwise. The tooth #1 is the first tooth after the first missing tooth (in our case, the tooth #1 is the 2nd missing tooth).
So, after looking at the link you posted, the tooth count should look like this :
And the tooth #1 angle should be 225°BTDC. Again, this pic is when the engine is set at TDC on cyl #1 and the rotation is clockwise.
I would like if someone could verify what I'm saying here.
Sam
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Re: 36-4 questions (was Getting a new trigger wheel added)
That looks to me like you have tooth #1 labeled number 2...
Ken
Ken
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Re: 36-4 questions (was Getting a new trigger wheel added)
I though about it too, but I've seen this quote on the extraefi.co.uk website :
http://www.extraefi.co.uk/wheel_fitting.htm
"If using a crank signal with missing teeth, the Tooth Number One will be the first tooth after the gap on a single gap crank (e.g. 36-1) or the second gap on a 2 gap signal (e.g. 60-2, the first tooth will therefore be Tooth #2). "
Picture of the 60-2 trigger wheel from extraefi.co.uk :
So, is this ok now?
Sam
http://www.extraefi.co.uk/wheel_fitting.htm
"If using a crank signal with missing teeth, the Tooth Number One will be the first tooth after the gap on a single gap crank (e.g. 36-1) or the second gap on a 2 gap signal (e.g. 60-2, the first tooth will therefore be Tooth #2). "
Picture of the 60-2 trigger wheel from extraefi.co.uk :
So, is this ok now?
Sam
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Re: 36-4 questions (was Getting a new trigger wheel added)
The section you have quoted from is under the heading "MS1-Extra only"
James
James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk
My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
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Re: 36-4 questions (was Getting a new trigger wheel added)
You're right, but I was assuming that this was the same between MS1 and MS2. Anyway, this mean that I was correct on my first iteration :
The tooth #1 angle should be 215°.
Sam
The tooth #1 angle should be 215°.
Sam