Some EAE related doubts.

[SimonKho79]

Hi all,

Its the first time for me to use EAE in my engine. And I am using Alpha 303r firmware. Fully Sequential injection.

The adhere to wall constants and RPM correction is easy to tune. But when it comes to Sucked-from-wall constants, I am having very very big problem~!

Each time I tuned the sucked from wall and tried, the deceleration doesnt seems to work well, the car will jerk heavily and air fuel was seriously lean. While jerking, the injection time shows 0.0000ms. Then back on after a while. I am sure that I have turned off overrun fuel cut.

I keep reducing the values in the sucked-from-wall constants until it is nearly 3ms~! The says that the 2ms - 6ms is standard and shall not be adjusted as much?

After many rounds of tuning the sucked from wall constants, finally got the deceleration to work (air fuel was not smooth, but at least it is not jerking much.) and it only works below atmo KPas. Because mine is a boosted engine, each time when I get into some boost say 0.3bar and above and starts to decel (both quickly and slowly releasing the accel pedal. The car jerks heavily again and I can see the same thing, the air fuel ratio shows 20.0, and injection time fluctuates between 0.000ms to a non zero value.

Another question, after the tuning session for EAE yesterday, I just realised that I have the Normal AE's "DECEL FUEL AMOUNT" reduced heavily, from the default 90% to 60% when I'm using normal AE last time. Just wondering if this "DECEL FUEL AMOUNT" setting also affects the EAE decel behaviour? And also, can anyone tell me IF there is any other setting in the Accel Wizard page that will affect the EAE calculations? I need some clarification here.

And, sorry IF this question has been asked before, caused I can't seems to search for such post in the forum.

Thanks all in advance.

Cheers,
Simon

[Peter Florance]

I'm using very little standard AE. Very short time and very small PW. Otherwise I think I would render the EAE model useless.

Tune it without any standard AE enabled first. Then just bring in enough to sharpen the leading edge of the PW response from throttle changes.
My decel % = 100%. That's EAE's job.

Also my cold setting are 0ms and 100%. Again, that's EAE's job. Before I changed that, it was sluggish in the morning. Now I can start the car and drive off.

[SimonKho79]

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the reply~!

So that does means that the settings in the ACCELERATION WIZARD does affects the EAE calculations and behaviour? ANd the standard AE still need to be used? Cause I have turned it off.

Hear from you soon Peter.

Cheers,
Simon

[Peter Florance]

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the reply~!

So that does means that the settings in the ACCELERATION WIZARD does affects the EAE calculations and behaviour? ANd the standard AE still need to be used? Cause I have turned it off.

Hear from you soon Peter.

Cheers,
Simon

Actually it does not effect the EAE calculations. So the model doesn't know about AE's actions on the PW so the model is not accurate

Ken, correct me if I'm wrong about this.

[SimonKho79]

Hi,

But you said that you have set the decel amount and cold start settings. So if it doesn't affects the calculations, why do we need to change them? And the standard AE still applies even if I set to EAE?

Thanks Peter.

Cheers,
Simon

[Peter Florance]

Hi,

But you said that you have set the decel amount and cold start settings. So if it doesn't affects the calculations, why do we need to change them? And the standard AE still applies even if I set to EAE?

Thanks Peter.

Cheers,
Simon

I think I am not clear: it affects the output PW but the EAE doesn't know about it.

That's the problem

I can post my MSQ if it will help

[SimonKho79]

Oh~ I see... okay so that's the problem. It still affects the normal PW thus indirectly causing different output from EAE too. Right?

Thanks and please post your MSQ. I'll have a look.

Thanks so much for the advice.

Cheers,
Simon

[Peter Florance]

Oh~ I see... okay so that's the problem. It still affects the normal PW thus indirectly causing different output from EAE too. Right?

Thanks and please post your MSQ. I'll have a look.

Thanks so much for the advice.

Cheers,
Simon

I think Ken needs to clarify exactly how it works but I think it changes the PW, but doesn't change the wall fuel.

[Peter Florance]

Here the latest
Not perfect but not bad

[muythaibxr]

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the reply~!

So that does means that the settings in the ACCELERATION WIZARD does affects the EAE calculations and behaviour? ANd the standard AE still need to be used? Cause I have turned it off.

Hear from you soon Peter.

Cheers,
Simon

Actually it does not effect the EAE calculations. So the model doesn't know about AE's actions on the PW so the model is not accurate

Ken, correct me if I'm wrong about this.

Wrong.

Any change in PW gets incorporated into the EAE calculations. This is why if you need any regular AE at all with EAE turned on, you need a VERY small amount.

As far as the decel fuel amount, if normal decel is triggering, that can also make EAE overreact. I recommend setting that value from 60% to 100%.

Ken

[Peter Florance]

Wrong.

Any change in PW gets incorporated into the EAE calculations. This is why if you need any regular AE at all with EAE turned on, you need a VERY small amount.

As far as the decel fuel amount, if normal decel is triggering, that can also make EAE overreact. I recommend setting that value from 60% to 100%.

Ken

Does it make sense to tune EAE with standard AE off until it's close?
I run 6 sqrts alt and always have decent tuned VE so I really haven't needed the standard AE but enabled it to understand it (sounds like I have a little more learning to do)

[muythaibxr]

Wrong.

Any change in PW gets incorporated into the EAE calculations. This is why if you need any regular AE at all with EAE turned on, you need a VERY small amount.

As far as the decel fuel amount, if normal decel is triggering, that can also make EAE overreact. I recommend setting that value from 60% to 100%.

Ken

Does it make sense to tune EAE with standard AE off until it's close?
I run 6 sqrts alt and always have decent tuned VE so I really haven't needed the standard AE but enabled it to understand it (sounds like I have a little more learning to do)

Yeah, I recommend tuning EAE first with no standard EAE at all... I usually disable it by setting my thresholds for MAP/TPS really high (as high as they will go) and then setting the decel % to 100.

Ken

[pigga]

Hi (I know Ken doesnt like to hear that ;-) ).... but I had good results with TPS-based EAE. You will have to make some compromises because TPS does not fit 100% the corresponding engine load at all circumstances. But it does about 95%. If you have a look at Bosch Monomotronic Systems you see that this works in OEM Applications very well, too. However, you will never reach a rock solid AFR like Bosch Monomotronic Alpha-N with MS.
To get EAE working you need a really good MAP signal from the manifold. Any delay in MAP measurement is no good at all, at least to my experience.
If you have problems with tuning due to lumpy cam and high MAP at idle (about 55kpa in my case, no big difference to 100kpa ;-) ) and you have activated ITB mode, that could give some improvement to Fuel-load-based EAE as well? I will try in a few days.
Thomas

[Peter Florance]

for me, the later codes with improved MAP sampling and Lag set to 100 really helped

[SimonKho79]

Yeah, I recommend tuning EAE first with no standard EAE at all... I usually disable it by setting my thresholds for MAP/TPS really high (as high as they will go) and then setting the decel % to 100.
Ken

Hi Ken,

So besides the Decel %. How about Cold Accel %, Cold Pulsewidth, and other settings? Do we need to change them and what value we should set them to, if we are using Enhanced AE? And from what I understand from this thread. The standard AE still need to be used even after we properly tuned the Enhanced AE?

Thanks Ken and Peter~!

Cheers,
Simon

[Peter Florance]

Yeah, I recommend tuning EAE first with no standard EAE at all... I usually disable it by setting my thresholds for MAP/TPS really high (as high as they will go) and then setting the decel % to 100.
Ken

Hi Ken,

So besides the Decel %. How about Cold Accel %, Cold Pulsewidth, and other settings? Do we need to change them and what value we should set them to, if we are using Enhanced AE? And from what I understand from this thread. The standard AE still need to be used even after we properly tuned the Enhanced AE?

Thanks Ken and Peter~!

Cheers,
Simon

I think most cars car benifit from AE + EAE. It's just easier IMO to get the basic curves tuned with no AE and with perfect VE table.
The "Quick EAE Question" thread is no longer quick but has a very good dialog about tuning EAE.
If you set the AE threshold high enough (1000) and set decel to 100%, you shouldn't have to do anything else.

[muythaibxr]

The only need for regular AE once EAE is turned on is for quick throttle blips for things like rev-matching downshifts.

Many engines won't even need this, but on both of my engines (quad ITBs and a rotary) small throttle changes result in large changes in load very quickly if you're blipping the throttle, and without any normal AE, many factors combined (number of squirts, lag on MAP, etc...) can make things happen too slowly with EAE for the engine to respond well.

Ken